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Larry Hryb:
Hi it's Larry Hryb, Xbox Lives, Major Nelson welcome to the show, Jeff good to see you.
Jeff:
Hey good to see you as well. A very low key intro, last week you're starting off with the big HBO theme, and this week it's just like-
Larry Hryb:
Hey man, we're just going to slide into the show.
Jeff:
Drizzle.
Larry Hryb:
We're doing things a little bit different. In fact, you can tell because I put right up here, it says, "Major Nelson video podcast." See that?
Jeff:
Radio is dead.
Larry Hryb:
Well no-
Jeff:
And you killed it.
Larry Hryb:
Radio was killed by the video superstar, something that. Or video killed the superstar. But yeah, we're trying something a little different. We're going to migrate over to doing video podcasts. In fact, Jeff and I just signed a $100 million deal with Spoti- .... No that wasn't us was it?
Jeff:
No, no it wasn't us.
Larry Hryb:
No.
Jeff:
They would pay us that much to not be on Spotify, I'm sure.
Larry Hryb:
But we've been getting together with you every week, I've been getting together with you most weeks for almost 15 years now beyond that. And Jeff's been joining me for the past seven, and we figure, "Hey, everyone's in this work from home scenario. Jeff's in his house in Seattle, I'm in my house, not in Seattle. And we're going to talk, we're trying to give you the same regular podcast we always do, we're just going to have video."
Larry Hryb:
If you're listening to the audio version of this on iTunes or Spotify, then you can head over to my YouTube channel at youtube.com/HRYB, and I'll have them all ... All the shows will be there. So we're doing something different Jeffrey, we're doing something different.
Jeff:
Different yet regular. Everyone's always been saying, "I really want to see the people who have amazing voice." No they've never said that, but we're giving it to them.
Larry Hryb:
No, but-
Jeff:
We're giving it to them.
Larry Hryb:
I can tell ... You know what I appreciate is a couple things. You took your time to, as we call I the show biz, the business of show wardrobe; you worked on your wardrobe.
Jeff:
I'm on brand, I'm always on brand.
Larry Hryb:
I have to tell you, I think this-
Jeff:
Always on brand.
Larry Hryb:
This is the first time in probably 15 years that I've been on camera with hair this long. This is-
Jeff:
That's long?
Larry Hryb:
This is long for me. I usually keep it nice and short, but not today.
Jeff:
It's good, it's a good look, it's a good look.
Larry Hryb:
But anyway, we're going to get together with you every week. We've got a pretty good show today, we've got a good show every day. But we've got a pretty good show for you.
Jeff:
I'll take pretty good. I think we would all settle for pretty good right now.
Larry Hryb:
Well we've got later on in the show, I'm talking to ... You know it is the 30th anniversary of Solitaire on-
Jeff:
I've heard that.
Larry Hryb:
So-
Jeff:
Yeah.
Larry Hryb:
For those of millions of people around the world that play Solitaire click, click, click on their PC when they're on their lunch or maybe during a meeting, I've got some Solitaire experts that are going to join us just a little bit from now.
Jeff:
Little bit of irony there; Solitaire joining the show.
Larry Hryb:
Yeah.
Jeff:
But you should really ... Why don't you handle this interview by yourself just to keep it on brand?
Larry Hryb:
I'll [crosstalk 00:02:55]
Jeff:
Does that work?
Larry Hryb:
Well actually ... And you're also going to find out during that interview what they call Solitaire in the UK. They call it something different-
Jeff:
It's probably got some crazy name.
Larry Hryb:
And if you're listening to this just with audio or video, then no your ears do not deceive you. Apparently Jeffrey's getting a delivery right now at his house. What is that?
Jeff:
I live in a relatively busy street.
Larry Hryb:
You do.
Jeff:
I should probably have close the window.
Larry Hryb:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Should I close the window?
Larry Hryb:
No [crosstalk 00:03:24], it's fine, it's fine we'll just deal with it.
Jeff:
No I don't need to breathe; there we go.
Larry Hryb:
But we figure we kind of go through, we'll do the regular show that we do. We're not going to do any gameplay this week, but we'll talk about what we're playing. We'll talk ... In fact, I've got my console up here.
Larry Hryb:
One of the things Jeff and I've been playing is the new season of Apex, which is out.
Jeff:
Yeah season five.
Larry Hryb:
Season five is out last week. My first game was with you, right? We got the first one right out of the-
Jeff:
Yeah.
Larry Hryb:
Shoot. First one, I don't think I've won since-
Jeff:
Day one. It's always good to get that day one win. We actually got win someone our six days-
Larry Hryb:
Right.
Jeff:
which is not ... I don't know how that happens. None since by the way. But, I mean, if we don't win again for the rest of the season, that would probably keep us right on balance for where we need to be.
Larry Hryb:
[inaudible 00:04:05]
Jeff:
Really love new character, Loba.
Larry Hryb:
Yeah.
Jeff:
She brings her own store. It's-
Larry Hryb:
She sets up shop for everyone. Not only does she set up shop for everybody, but she can leave the shop behind, and if you come upon someone else's shop, you can also use it.
Jeff:
Yeah, so you should take it down strategically.
Larry Hryb:
Which I [crosstalk 00:04:24]-
Jeff:
But same day delivery. I mean, in this day and age, I mean, that's ... My hat's off to her.
Larry Hryb:
Better than crying.
Jeff:
So much.
Larry Hryb:
But we're playing Apex. What else am I playing? Oh Minecraft Dungeons which is out next week right Jeff?
Jeff:
It comes out next week, very excited for that one. It is the Minecraft take on the Dungeon Crawler Couch Co-op. You can also play Co-op across Xbox Live. It's going to be coming out on Xbox Game Pass-
Larry Hryb:
Yeah.
Jeff:
For PC and for Xbox. Also going to be available on PS4 and on Switch. This is a game ... You have no excuse not to play it-
Larry Hryb:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Everywhere you could be, this game is going to be. So I've be playing it as well.
Larry Hryb:
[inaudible 00:05:06]
Jeff:
We're under embargo-
Larry Hryb:
Yeah.
Jeff:
We can't talk too much about it, other than I'm enjoying the heck out of it, I look forward to playing Couch Co-op up with my daughter; she never played Diablo. And so this could be sort of like baby's first Diablo in a way.
Larry Hryb:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And then we can go on from there. But the mechanics are good, starts out very easy, does not end up very easy.
Larry Hryb:
No [inaudible 00:05:26]-
Jeff:
And it's really a good application; it just seems to fit. Minecraft works in outside of just Minecraft, it works in a different genre and it works really well.
Larry Hryb:
Right, yeah good point.
Jeff:
Actually, while we're talking about it-
Larry Hryb:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Happy birthday to Monet, Mike-
Larry Hryb:
Oh yeah.
Jeff:
Kraft. They had their 11th birthday just earlier this week on May 17th. And they revealed a new [Moyang 00:05:49] [inaudible 00:05:49] new sort of intro logo for their-
Larry Hryb:
Wow.
Jeff:
Studios. They're now known as Moyang Studios, because there's there's folks in Sweden, there's folks in Redmond; so very cool. The future of Minecraft is very bright.
Larry Hryb:
Yeah, congratulations to all of Moyang team. As you say, they've for that, they've got a lot going on over there. And Minecraft Dungeons now it's important to note ... You know this but I'm going to remind you, Minecraft Dungeons Game Pass. Right?
Jeff:
Yeah. Jump right on in. All I got three gig download you'll be playing it in minutes.
Larry Hryb:
Right.
Jeff:
It's just no excuse not to.
Larry Hryb:
Play [inaudible 00:06:24].
Jeff:
[inaudible 00:06:24] you been playing that I want-
Larry Hryb:
Yes.
Jeff:
You to talk about.
Larry Hryb:
Yes.
Jeff:
Super Mega Baseball 3.
Larry Hryb:
I downloaded that, I guess, was a couple nights ago. And I was telling you when you and I were playing that we need to play this. It was a lot of fun, I mean, baseball games tend to be fun. But this one was a little bit more sophisticated than I expected. It was quite ... There's a lot going on, but it can be simple if you want to, you can just swing the bat and try to go for the fence. Which is my equivalent ... Jeff and I, you play all the time, and it's the equivalent of me doing the Hail Mary in football. But yeah-
Jeff:
Wherever play Madden, just throw it at the Gronk over the middle.
Larry Hryb:
Mm-hmm (affirmative), but this is-
Jeff:
There's no audibles it's just-
Larry Hryb:
You can see enough right here.
Jeff:
[inaudible 00:07:08].
Larry Hryb:
Most recently played.
Jeff:
Oh yeah.
Larry Hryb:
It's right here. But yeah, I played that so we need to check that out. Baseball season is kind of here in some way or another. So we've got that going for us right?
Jeff:
How did you say your background to Loba? How did that happen? I want to do that.
Larry Hryb:
You should do it, I recommend you do that.
Jeff:
Just do that, I'll do that yes, big fan-
Larry Hryb:
[inaudible 00:07:28]
Jeff:
Big fan. Yeah, I was a big RBI baseball fan back in the day and no they've released subsequent, more modern RBI baseballs. And this sort of gave me a vibe of a more of a cartoony take.
Larry Hryb:
Yeah.
Jeff:
But I was reading an article from Stem at Sarkar Polygon, great sports game reviewer, a huge baseball fan.
Larry Hryb:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And he had a lot of good things to say about Super Mega baseball 3.
Larry Hryb:
I was stunned, I absolutely was stunned, I was like, "This is legit." So it's a lot of fun, I was playing whatever the Floridian version is the stadiums and the team; so spring training.
Jeff:
Spring training, spring training. When to Clearwater Jack Russell Stadium or whatever it's called. It's probably changed names.
Larry Hryb:
So they named it after a dog breed? That's interesting.
Jeff:
Yeah I don't know why. Yeah, no you're right. The Jack Russell Terrier Stadium I guess. I don't ... Maybe the college team out there in Clearwater is called the Terriers, I-
Larry Hryb:
I don't know.
Jeff:
It's a good point.
Larry Hryb:
What else do I [crosstalk 00:08:28]-
Jeff:
It's a good point. Did I zoom out, did I just zoom out? What happened-
Larry Hryb:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Here? We got all soft cap.
Larry Hryb:
This is fancy, this is some fancy stuff going on here. We're vested in a team of people that are working on this. No it's just me. But we're-
Jeff:
It's just you.
Larry Hryb:
We're just having some fun here. But yeah I'm also playing ... You and I play a little bit of War Zone.
Jeff:
Mm-hmm (affirmative), that was my first time playing.
Larry Hryb:
Yeah-
Jeff:
I've been so-
Larry Hryb:
What are you doing?
Jeff:
Swept up in Apex that I just hadn't played it. And-
Larry Hryb:
[inaudible 00:08:57] Jeff
Jeff:
There's a lot to take it.
Larry Hryb:
Yeah, I mean you ... Yeah there is a lot to take it [inaudible 00:09:03]-
Jeff:
You said it right when you said that the intro when you're jumping out of the plane like that, the level of quality on that; it's staggering-
Larry Hryb:
Yeah.
Jeff:
When you see just what they put into the genre.
Larry Hryb:
Well it's when you jump out of the plane, I mean, you've got your kit, you're all kitted up it's who you are. But my favorite thing is when you jump out of a plane, we've all had this conversation whether you're playing [Fortnight 00:09:26] or PubG, or Apex the battle. Okay we're going to land at this place, or run off, or whatever.
Larry Hryb:
The names just gl- ... They just kind of fade in over the map, and it's pretty impressive because it's just there's no mistake. There's like you can easily spot TV station, you're not looking for the building, you can see the big thing that says, 'TV station.' So I know that that seems crazy, but it's the simple things that the quality of life.
Jeff:
That being said, having played Apex where there's a [inaudible 00:09:55] faster, and I can just sort of [inaudible 00:09:58] my phone. I mean, just tell me where we're going, and then-
Larry Hryb:
Right.
Jeff:
Right before we land, I break off and loot. And then you're like, "All right, we're landing here." And I'm like, Yeah, so what's going on?" And I'm still going. And I'm like-
Larry Hryb:
Yeah [crosstalk 00:10:07]-
Jeff:
"Oh, I have to do this?"
Larry Hryb:
Yeah you've got to do it so yeah that's-
Jeff:
Yeah, and I think I pulled my sheet way too early, and the whole match-
Larry Hryb:
[inaudible 00:10:14]
Jeff:
Is happening and I'm just like John Travolta here, but in the air coming down ... A lot to learn. We need to come back to it.
Larry Hryb:
Do that again.
Jeff:
What?
Larry Hryb:
[inaudible 00:10:24]. Just giving that gift to the internet to make it a [inaudible 00:10:29].
Jeff:
No green screen back here.
Larry Hryb:
Speaking of the green screen, what do you got going on behind you?
Jeff:
I am completely obsessed with Yakuza 0. This was a game ... This was a series I've never played it, and will be announced in Episode 19 that Yakuza was coming to Xbox Game Pass along with [inaudible 00:10:45] Fun Fantasy titles, and a number of other just Japanese publishers that are really supporting Xbox Game Pass
Jeff:
So I was like, "This is my chance." Everyone said start with Yakuza 0, it's not the oldest one, but it's the oldest in the timeline. So nothing has happened before Yakuza 0. And I played a couple hours, and then we were busy with a lot of things. We've launched [inaudible 00:11:08], and we launched Gears Tactics, we're launching Minecraft Dungeons-
Larry Hryb:
[crosstalk 00:11:12]
Jeff:
But I sat down ... At the time we could still travel and this came about. And I got back into it about two weeks ago, and now I'm playing every day. I love Japan and I think maybe because I can't travel, and this game sort of teleports you into Japan, and it's such a finally realistic ... It's funny, product placement that would turn me off in another medium, when I go into a Japanese whiskey bar in this game, and I could order a Yamazaki 12 and it starts telling me about the whiskey and I'm like, "Yes, I love that, I love that."
Larry Hryb:
Right.
Jeff:
And, yeah, it's just ... I do when they pick up the phone and they go, "Moshi, moshi." Because I know you do that sometimes, right?
Larry Hryb:
Well that's a little known fact when Jeff calls me I'll answer, "Moshi, moshi."
Jeff:
Which is how you say hello. But we should have separate hellos for when you pick up the phone, "[inaudible 00:12:06]." Or whatever. Just [inaudible 00:12:08] up, just [inaudible 00:12:08] up.
Larry Hryb:
First of all [crosstalk 00:12:09]
Jeff:
How is that any different?
Larry Hryb:
Does anybody pick up the phone anymore, right?
Jeff:
Yeah, no I don't I send it straight to voicemail.
Larry Hryb:
My [crosstalk 00:12:17]. My mother even tells me to text her, "Don't call me, text me."
Jeff:
See, she does, she doesn't want to be interrupted. Anyway Yakuza 0, I am dozens of hours in, I feel like there's still dozens of hours to go. It's a really interesting story, it's our Game Pass. There's a lot of mini games, you can choose to do and choose not to.
Jeff:
I will say that the side quests in this game are some of the most bizarre things I've ever done, and yet I'm doing every single one of them. I've never said, "No." And I've never regretted saying yes. There's so much value there and, at some point, we'll get to use a [inaudible 00:12:51]. And future games we talked about, [inaudible 00:12:55] dragon going to be coming to Xbox Series X.
Larry Hryb:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Which so excited about that. So I've got a lot of work to do, but every night, this is what I'm playing and I love it, I just love it.
Larry Hryb:
Yeah, I see you playing that and I need to ... I want to say I did the first level of it, and I just haven't had a chance to go back.
Jeff:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Larry Hryb:
I got pulled into ... What did I get pulled into? I think I'm back into Doom. I did that the moon game [crosstalk 00:13:18].
Jeff:
Oh deliver us the moon, yes.
Larry Hryb:
Yeah I did that.
Jeff:
It's very much up your alley.
Larry Hryb:
So I did a bunch-
Jeff:
Yeah.
Larry Hryb:
Of games. Anyway, so I do need to take a look at that again. But yeah, I mean, look at that in the back there, it looks ... Of course, I've cut to you and the screen goes dark.
Jeff:
You cut to me and it goes dark?
Larry Hryb:
Right there and there-
Jeff:
Yes.
Larry Hryb:
There it is, there it is. So yeah so [crosstalk 00:13:36]-
Jeff:
Everyone wants to see my ... Yeah-
Larry Hryb:
[crosstalk 00:13:39]
Jeff:
You know what I was thinking is we should-
Larry Hryb:
Yeah.
Jeff:
No it's true. Really it's been a lot of this, a lot Apex and then and then Minecraft Dungeons. What I want to jump into because it just became available this week is Alan Wake came to Xbox Game Pass-
Larry Hryb:
Yes.
Jeff:
Very excited about this.
Larry Hryb:
[inaudible 00:13:54]
Jeff:
I've always wanted to play this. Even when I worked at Sony, I bought Alan Wake, I was like, "This looks right up my alley." And just somehow I never got to it. And I've played pretty much every other remedy game including-
Larry Hryb:
[inaudible 00:14:09]
Jeff:
We've worked on Quantum Break and love Quantum Break. And I really love Control, that was my favorite game last year. They even reference Alan Wake in Control as being a case file, one of the ... Did you play Control? You ever play Control?
Jeff:
So now I've downloaded Alan Wake on my gaming PC, it's on Xbox Game Pass, by the way, for PC and for Console. So I downloaded it on PC just to give that a go. And because that game is monopolizing my Xbox, and I'm looking forward to playing it alongside Final Fantasy 9, which also came out a week or two before that.
Larry Hryb:
Right.
Jeff:
So all the games I've never got to, Game Pass is ensuring that I will get to them, and it's the gift that keeps on giving.
Larry Hryb:
And we've got ... To speak of that, should we go through and ... Do you have the news in front of you? You want to kind of do the news or should-
Jeff:
I do.
Larry Hryb:
We can do the interview, we can stop and do the interview, or what do you [crosstalk 00:15:01]-
Jeff:
Why don't we do the news, and then we can do the interview, and come on back and I'll be playing Solitaire here.
Larry Hryb:
All right [crosstalk 00:15:06] let's go ahead and why don't you start giving us some news if you would Jeffrey.
Jeff:
Sure. So another game we should go back into is [Overwatch 00:15:13], it's their anniversary, and supposed to be their ... Is it four years old now? I feel like it is. It was 2016 wow-
Larry Hryb:
Where's the [crosstalk 00:15:22]-
Jeff:
We played ... I still probably played more Overwatch than any other game this generation. And the cool thing about their anniversary event, throughout the year they release different skins, and they have different events the [Yeti Hans 00:15:33] and [Junkin Stein's Revenge 00:15:35]; there's usually a couple different things. And they bring them all back, and they just throw everything at the table. Lucille Ball all at once during their anniversary events. So their anniversary event is now-
Larry Hryb:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Through June 9th, so we have close to three weeks. And all the skins ... If you missed any of the cool skins, if you haven't played a while ... [inaudible 00:15:52] you want to come back like we did. And we came back and we found it, it was riding a bike, and we played really well. But there were a lot of skins I didn't get that were really cool.
Jeff:
You can get them all, they're all available, some of them even go down in price. So, I'm going to be jumping back in, there's some really cool limited time stuff. And again, Yeti Hans, Junkin Stein's Revenge, Lucille Ball all that. Some of the [PvE Story 00:16:13] stuff they're all back. So this is the best time to get back. We haven't played Echo yet, we haven't Eastern-
Larry Hryb:
But we tried-
Jeff:
Dru, we were playing Dru [inaudible 00:16:20], right?
Larry Hryb:
Yeah we tried a little bit of Echo. By the way, if you're watching this, because we are doing video now, you see this little ticker along the bottom. That is just some of the headlines from Xbox Wire so go to news.Xbox.com and you can see some of these. If any of those stories intrigue you-
Jeff:
Look at that.
Larry Hryb:
And Jeff has delivered it then you can just go Xbox-
Jeff:
Yeah, I mean, I've been replaced by a scrolling text; it's fine. No a game I'm excited about ... Another one if we're going back to ... We've been talking about [XO-19 00:16:49] a little bit where Yakuza was first announced on an Xbox Game Pass grounded. So [obsidian 00:16:55] specs game and-
Larry Hryb:
Yeah we [inaudible 00:16:57] that-
Jeff:
It is-
Larry Hryb:
I can't wait for that-
Jeff:
You-
Larry Hryb:
I cannot wait for that.
Jeff:
It's going to be released into Xbox preview, but for a few days, close to a week starting June 9th, there will be a flight available ... That's what we call internally. A limited time test for Xbox insiders on the Xbox Insider Hub and on Steam. So you definitely want to get ... We have a blog post on this, you'll want to keep an eye out so you can figure out how to join to be an Xbox insider, how to sign up for it.
Larry Hryb:
Yeah.
Jeff:
But that's coming up, you got a couple week's warnings. We're telling you now, you want to get in there, it will be your first chance to explore what ground it is.
Larry Hryb:
Super Mega Baseball ticker; I just noticed. I don't even see these, they just-
Jeff:
There is.
Larry Hryb:
Come in from a wire, so.
Jeff:
Yeah, that was a title. We talked to the team that makes Super Mega Baseball 3 about how they made it. So maybe we'll see that grounded flight post. We talked about coming soon, Alan Wake is coming to Xbox Game Pass. We talked about Minecraft Dungeons coming to Xbox Game Pass, also City Skylines, the Xbox One edition.
Larry Hryb:
Yes.
Jeff:
That is probably the best city builder ever made. I've had a lot of time messing around with City Skylines [crosstalk 00:18:04] we can do some really cool stuff.
Larry Hryb:
Back in the day?
Jeff:
Was a huge SimCity fan back in the ... I played it back on the Mac, the unibody Mac that was sort of just monochrome monitor. And I remember playing on that and-
Larry Hryb:
Was it like a Mac plus?
Jeff:
It was so tiny.
Larry Hryb:
Like a Mac Plus?
Jeff:
If that what it was called.
Larry Hryb:
[inaudible 00:18:21]
Jeff:
The one that ... It was one thing where it had a-
Larry Hryb:
Beige.
Jeff:
Looked like a happy little thing.
Larry Hryb:
It was beige.
Jeff:
This one maybe it was white, I don't know.
Larry Hryb:
Oh no that [crosstalk 00:18:29]-
Jeff:
Before-
Larry Hryb:
Silver, yeah.
Jeff:
Okay. So anyway-
Larry Hryb:
I'm trying to [crosstalk 00:18:33]
Jeff:
I've been playing some [crosstalk 00:18:34].
Larry Hryb:
My office because I just redid my office, I'm trying to get it ... Because that was one of-
Jeff:
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Larry Hryb:
The first computers I had as well; I loved that machine.
Jeff:
I mean, it was really landmark. Actually I was watching an old video where Bill Gates was talking about that computer. Because Microsoft supporting Mac back in like in 1985 or whatever-
Larry Hryb:
Yeah.
Jeff:
It was. I saw that one Austin [inaudible 00:18:53] channel. It was cool, he was just watching old 80s tech commercials, and videos, and stuff that. Back then, Bill Gates would just show up in a commercial, it was just [crosstalk 00:19:02] it was a different era. No.
Larry Hryb:
Look on YouTube for the Coke commercial he did, it's pretty funny. It's an actual Coke commercial. So I'll see if I can find it.
Jeff:
So City Skylines, Alan Wake, Minecraft Dungeon. All three of those titles coming out, Xbox Game Pass for both PC and for Xbox. If you're on PC, another game called Plebe Quest that is also coming soon to Xbox Game Pass.
Jeff:
I don't know a ton about it, looks like it's maybe a strategy game, perhaps a little bit of RPG in there. And then more games coming ... You can pre-install Crusader Kings III. We talked about that last week. Big fan of the 100 Years War, I mean that's your thing, get on in there, pre-install it now, and it'll be ready when the game comes available.
Larry Hryb:
Nice.
Jeff:
We also have a sale. The super saver sale. You like to save, you like to super save-
Larry Hryb:
Who doesn't?
Jeff:
One would imagine.
Larry Hryb:
Who doesn't?
Jeff:
So up to 80% off some big games the Division 2, Middle or Shadow of War; I love that game. A Way Out is a game I've wanted to play with you, we somehow never did it. It came out earlier the year-
Larry Hryb:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Like 2018 maybe. Watch Dogs 2; which is a fantastic game. I mean, I lived in SF and so it was cool to explore San Francisco in a video game, and also to be able to change the traffic lights with your phone. I tried doing that, I got a talking on my phone ticket. That's-
Larry Hryb:
[inaudible 00:20:25]
Jeff:
Doesn't work, do it in the game, don't do it-
Larry Hryb:
Try to make those-
Jeff:
Lean from my mistakes.
Larry Hryb:
[inaudible 00:20:29] come up; didn't work either.
Jeff:
Yeah, yeah. Not as many [inaudible 00:20:33] in real life as there are in the game, but it is what it is. Last thing Sea of Thieves announced this week coming to Steam. So if you've never played before, if you have a big Steam library and that's your preferred way to play on PC, Sea of Thieves is coming June 3. So that's just a couple of weeks away, and you'll be able to play along with people on Xbox One and Windows 10. I mean, it's 10 million people playing that game so-
Larry Hryb:
I must-
Jeff:
That will be more than that.
Larry Hryb:
I must make a confession.
Jeff:
What?
Larry Hryb:
A Sea of Thieves, A Sea of Thieves one which is ... So we're sitting, we're in our home offices and I've got my Xbox set up here. And I usually log into Sea of Thieves. I'll get into a vessel, a ship all by myself, I'll sail out from the port, I'll drop anchor and I'll raise the Alliance flag.
Jeff:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Larry Hryb:
So just sit there and take it. As anybody that's in the Alliance we're just taken money. So basically I'm not contributing, I'm just taking any money that's coming in.
Jeff:
You're just [inaudible 00:21:37] it, you just collect ... You're a leech on society Larry.
Larry Hryb:
Yes I am and I'm ... All right, now you know, now you know.
Jeff:
If you see him, report him.
Larry Hryb:
Yeah, right [crosstalk 00:21:46]-
Jeff:
Don't let him get away with that.
Larry Hryb:
You stay idle for like 10 minutes, the server will kick you aside pretty [inaudible 00:21:51].
Jeff:
Okay.
Larry Hryb:
As well it should.
Jeff:
Be that as it may, I would hope that you're pillaged for that, because that's just ... You got to contribute.
Larry Hryb:
Yeah [crosstalk 00:22:00].
Jeff:
No collecting.
Larry Hryb:
So, yeah so playing a lot of Sea of Thieves. Was back in there and got my monkey, got my cat, got my parrot.
Jeff:
I had a cat.
Larry Hryb:
You do, what you name it?
Jeff:
The game has evolved so much.
Larry Hryb:
What did you do [inaudible 00:22:12].
Jeff:
Could you name the cat? Oh yeah Mr. Sniffles, because I'm allergic to cats. The only cat I can have is a virtual cat in-
Larry Hryb:
That's right you are-
Jeff:
In Sea of Thieves.
Larry Hryb:
You do have an allergy to kitty cats so. I named mine-
Jeff:
I'd love to have a cat.
Larry Hryb:
After somebody that we play with frequently, Ryan. Just name it Ryan.
Jeff:
Just Ryan? Ryan the cat? I mean it's important that it has meaning for you; that's what really matters.
Larry Hryb:
I laugh.
Jeff:
So that is the news.
Larry Hryb:
Really?
Jeff:
So script.
Larry Hryb:
I feel [crosstalk 00:22:45]-
Jeff:
Talk about.
Larry Hryb:
First of all, I want to thank everybody because you're going to be with us on this journey as this ... Back in the day when I used to do the podcasts by myself when I was at my kitchen table, it evolved into this collection of characters, and so forth. But you're going to see this podcast evolve, so I need to get a couple things. I need to get a nice intro and outro for Jeff's news [inaudible 00:23:07], "And now to the news."
Jeff:
Yeah I want to produce this, yes.
Larry Hryb:
And then in the back-
Jeff:
This is the news desk, it's right here.
Larry Hryb:
Yeah. And then in the back of you, Jeff, I think we're going to have to demand that we do get a green screen to pull down so that you can deliver us the weather.
Jeff:
Oh, I would love to do that.
Larry Hryb:
Right?
Jeff:
Yeah.
Larry Hryb:
So-
Jeff:
I-
Larry Hryb:
We're already-
Jeff:
Got pretty good at the Doppler here.
Larry Hryb:
We're trying things out a little differently. So all right, why don't we do this Jeff, why don't we take a stop down? I did the interview earlier with ... And I did not know this, there are academics who actually study Solitaire. Did you know that? Did you?
Jeff:
No, I mean I probably ... I feel like I qualify. I'm pretty darn good at Freecell, like you don't take me out.
Larry Hryb:
Yeah, all right, let's-
Jeff:
Just don't.
Larry Hryb:
So do you want to hear that interview?
Jeff:
Let's hear it.
Larry Hryb:
All right, I'm here today with some amazing individuals; these guys are Solitaire experts. So joining me from across the pond ... Let's see, who we have first here; we have Ian. Ian you are a Professor of Computer Science at the University of St. Andrews in Scotland correct?
Ian:
Correct, yeah that's right, yeah.
Larry Hryb:
Okay-
Ian:
Talking to the right guy.
Larry Hryb:
And you work on Solitaire right? Or you were-
Ian:
Yeah.
Larry Hryb:
Kind of a Solitaire expert right?
Ian:
Yeah, yeah, I've called myself the self proclaimed world expert on Solitaire, at least solving it with computers at least, yeah.
Larry Hryb:
Well apparently, these days you can self proclaim anything, but I trust you, I trust you on this one. Also joining us is Charlie, who is a computer science student at the University of Oxford in England. Now you are pursuing a master's in AI and computer science. Hi Charlie.
Charlie:
Good to be on the show.
Larry Hryb:
I got to tell you, I'm excited to have you guys on because Solitaire is a big deal for a lot of people, it's celebrating this massive milestone. And I wanted to talk to you guys about the research you've done. Ian the research that you've done with it, and kind of how you guys think about it, and what makes it so special. So I guess I'll kick it over to you first, Ian.
Ian:
Okay, so the research we've done is all about for Solitaire, and the game of Solitaire as in what everyone calls Solitaire.
Larry Hryb:
I want to be clear, over in Europe-
Ian:
Yeah.
Larry Hryb:
It's called Patience, right?
Ian:
Right. It's incredibly confusing. So Patience is the name for a game and it's a name for the whole family of game. So the Solitaire collection-
Larry Hryb:
Right.
Ian:
As far as I'm concerned, they're all patience games.
Larry Hryb:
Right.
Ian:
And one of them is called Solitaire in America, and in Britain there might be called Demon, or Patience, or Klondike. So we settled on ... The word people use is Klondike. So that's the game with the seven things, and you put down free to time. And that's the game that most people just call Soli-
Larry Hryb:
So they're familiar with this board right? This is what it looks right?
Charlie:
Yeah that's [inaudible 00:26:02].
Larry Hryb:
So-
Ian:
Yeah.
Larry Hryb:
And Charlie I want to talk to you about how you got hooked up with Ian, and how it connected, and some of the work that you're doing. Because you're ta- ... I've read some of the work that you've done. You had a paper that you produced, but it basically says that you can always win at Solitaire. Am I paraphrasing that correctly?
Charlie:
Not quite.
Larry Hryb:
Okay, correct me please.
Charlie:
[crosstalk 00:26:28] Yeah, I was studying under Ian's instruction as [inaudible 00:26:35] Scotland during my undergraduate degree, and started working on this project. Basically with the aim of trying to figure all these Solitaire games. How winnable are they? If you get dealt some random hands, what are the chances that actually there's some sequence of moves that's going to get you get out, get to a winning position?
Larry Hryb:
Right.
Charlie:
Sometimes, though, you can't get there. And so what players really want to know is ... If you play the game, you'll develop your own win rate right? You'll give on 20% games, maybe 80% of games you'll succeed on, and so you have that figure. It's like 80% percent that's great but ... It's probably lower, maybe it's 50%.
Charlie:
But you want to know if you played as well as it possibly could, what's the sort of limit there? Maybe you're giving up on 15% of games which you could have won. So we're trying to find out what the number is there. It's not 100%, you can't win them all, but we figured it was for that particular Klondike game, somewhere around, I think, 86%. Ian correct me if I'm wrong.
Ian:
Yeah, you're wrong, yeah.
Charlie:
I'm wrong [inaudible 00:27:41].
Ian:
It's approximately 81.956%.
Charlie:
[inaudible 00:27:46]
Ian:
But to call it 82%, it's probably just under 82%, but we don't actually know for sure; but it's not 83%. So if anyone ever wins more than 83% of games, they're playing with a stack deck or something like that.
Larry Hryb:
Now I want to talk to you guys because you're both very, obviously, your academics, you're experts in this. So is Solitaire is it brainless fun, or is it an intellectual challenge? How do you look at it?
Ian:
It's a really good question, and I think the great thing about it is it's both brainless fun and intellectual challenge. Just depending on how you're feeling on any given day, or your own mindset, and you can play it completely brainlessly.
Ian:
So for example, there's another game which isn't in the Solitaire collection called Accordion, which a friend of mine was saying his mom has played every day. And it's keeping her going while her brain is sort of going away a bit. And it's a fun way to keep her going, and she plays every day, and he comes out maybe once or twice a year. But also if you play it with the best possible way, you can win it basically 100% of the time.
Larry Hryb:
Right.
Ian:
So you can ... But you do have to think a lot, if you're going to do it that way, or use a computer or whatever. So-
Larry Hryb:
So at that point, if you want to win, it's an intellectual challenge?
Ian:
Right. Well if you want to win, if you want to maximize your chances of winning every game, then yeah. So if you just want to play it and have fun, and you win; that's great, but there's a lot more beneath the surface than you might think.
Larry Hryb:
I want to talk to you guys about the research that you did. And tell us about the research and what the goal was of this research.?
Charlie:
So the assumption we took was basically ... So if you imagine Solitaire as a sort of large family of different Solitaire games, of which a few of them feature ... I'm thinking the Windows; so it's that collection.
Charlie:
Then so you've got this family of games, and we wanted to get these win rates for all of them. So if you play it as well as possibly can, what are your chances of being able to get around and deal to completion? And so we basically set about playing lots and lots of games of Solitaire; probably hundreds of millions of different hands-
Larry Hryb:
Was this automated or were you actually doing it with yourself? Tell me about it, okay.
Charlie:
Yeah [inaudible 00:30:16] hundreds of millions of hands by ourselves leads to sore fingers [inaudible 00:30:22]. But [inaudible 00:30:24] my [inaudible 00:30:27] graduate thesis project to try and come up with something that could play this automatically fairly quickly.
Charlie:
And the key challenge to this is we're not just trying to find solutions, for those things where you can't find a solution, we have to play every possible combination of moves to try and say, "Okay, there's definitely no solution." And that's where the tricky bit comes in is trying to prove, for a given hand, there is no way you can get this at [inaudible 00:30:53] where you need to.
Larry Hryb:
Right.
Charlie:
That's [inaudible 00:30:55].
Larry Hryb:
Now I was looking through your paper, and I have to apologize, I didn't understand much of it; that's why we're doing the interview. But I want to ... And correct me if I have this quote wrong, but in the paper you call, "One of the embarrassments of Applied Mathematics is that the winning ability percentage of Solitaire hasn't been known."
Ian:
Yeah that's a fantastic quote, we were quoting somebody else. So I'm a self proclaimed [inaudible 00:31:23], but this wasn't my own quote. There's a guy called Persi Diaconis, who's one of the world's leading statisticians. And, yeah, he put that in a paper that he said, "Not knowing how easy it is to win, or how hat percentage you can win Solitaire, is one of the embarrassments of applied mathematics."
Ian:
Because it's like ... I think what he's getting at is it's such a simple thing that everybody knows, and for him as a statistician ... And actually he started out as a magician and a card shark sort of guy. So you would think you just asked a mathematician, "Hey, here's a simple thing everyone knows, I've been playing since I was six. How many times do I win?" And nobody knows. But there's one thing that maybe is worth bringing up that we haven't sorted out. So there's one question we have answered and this one we haven't.
Larry Hryb:
Okay.
Ian:
So the one we've answered is if you're playing ... And I like to illustrate it with the Solitaire collection. If you're playing Solitaire on the Solitaire collection, then you've got an undo button. So you make a mistake, you've got undo. And I think-
Larry Hryb:
I'm very familiar-
Ian:
It's a limited-
Larry Hryb:
With that button.
Ian:
Right, so you can do that undo buttons as many times as you like.
Larry Hryb:
Sure.
Ian:
So when we say it's 82%, that's if he use the undo button unlimited times.
Larry Hryb:
Oh, interesting.
Ian:
So you can kind of ... If you imagine this is what the computer does, but you can imagine doing it yourself as well. You might try stuff and then you reveal a card, you've got a choice of which card to reveal or something that. And you try one and you get a really bad card, and you try the ... So then you undo, and you try the other one, but it's the ace, which is what you wanted.
Ian:
Now if you imagine doing that, that's the 82% number. And that's the one we've kind of answered. The one we don't know, and really we don't know if it's 80%, or 40%, or 20%, is what if he didn't cheat?
Larry Hryb:
I don't cheat.
Ian:
Sorry, use the facilities available in the wonderful.
Larry Hryb:
You say, "Cheat." I say, "Undo."
Ian:
Yeah, right. If you didn't have the undo button, you imagine that had a kind of hardcore mode where you turned off the undo button, what would be the best you could do then?
Larry Hryb:
Right.
Ian:
And we still don't know, even within a factor of two. So we've got it within .1% if you use the undo button and it's not factor of two if you're don't. You can't be more than 82%, but it could be a lot less.
Larry Hryb:
In your paper where you talk about Sol- ... You mention solvitare. Explain what solvitare is.
Charlie:
Yeah, solvitare is the actual program that does the heavy lifting. So this is the thing that we wrote; basically play all these hands as quickly as possible. And one of the challenges I get, some of the things we're trying to address is it's very difficult to play all these hands, and try and get to a position where you can either say, "There's no possible winning position." Or, "Here's a way you can win this hand."
Charlie:
And so we have to do lots of sort of clever things try to identify symmetrical positions that we can then say, "Okay, this is kind of the same thing, this is kind of the same it's doing, this really and we can sort of just ignore this move, because it's kind of the same as doing this move.
Charlie:
And there's a bunch of kind of [inaudible 00:35:00] up there in terms of trying to identify when moves you don't need to do in sets. And you'll do this when you're playing as well, [inaudible 00:35:08] if I've moved, this relates or this spread five over here. So that's the five of diamonds, I don't really then need to do it with the five hearts because it's probably going to come out the same. So, yeah.
Larry Hryb:
When you started your research, what was the end goal, and did you get there? Did it take a different path of where your research was where you [crosstalk 00:35:32].
Ian:
I think one thing ... Well, yeah, one thing I think I would say is ... Which we haven't talked a lot about yet is actually it's kind of a bit of a ... It's not quite a coincidence because Solitaire, the main Solitaire game, was one of our big targets.
Larry Hryb:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Ian:
But actually we were really interested in the whole family. Because there's hundreds of games, there's give I think in those Solitaire collection, but there's lots and lots of others. And we wanted to get not all of them, but we wanted to get as many as we could-
Larry Hryb:
Sure.
Ian:
Without breaking our backs. And so actually what the kind of things Charlie was just describing in the Solitaire program that he wrote ... I did a few minor things, but he wrote it.
Larry Hryb:
[inaudible 00:36:17]
Ian:
Yes, amazing. Is that actually ... And when I'm talking about it to academics, I think the bit that impresses them more is we can give a specification in a few lines ... Like in this space on a computer screen, and you can change it from Solitaire, to Freecell, to Spider, to King Albert, to Accordion, to Golf, and all of these games and it's just these few lines of code.
Ian:
And it's just as good as all of them ... There's some it's not very good, but in most cases it's as good in all of them just because it's really general stuff. So I definitely think we got actually, I would say, without any doubt, we got a lot further than I expected. Because it's really a suite ... It's one of the things that really came together well. I'd have been delighted to get the numbers we got for Solitaire-
Larry Hryb:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Ian:
And I'd have been delighted to have a very [inaudible 00:37:19] program worked on lots of things, and we got both. We got massive improvements on solving Solitaire, and we got lots of general games, so that was amazing.
Charlie:
One of the-
Larry Hryb:
Go ahead-
Charlie:
Go head.
Larry Hryb:
I'm sorry.
Charlie:
One of the neat things about this feature that we have as well, being able to sort of feed in any sort of custom game so that the program and have it, is about this percentage of the other item is that you can take some description of the rules of Solitaire Klondike, whatever you want to call it, and put that in.
Charlie:
I mean you can tweak things. You can say, "Okay, if I just remove ... I throw in [inaudible 00:37:54] kings, does it come out with [inaudible 00:37:55], does it come out [inaudible 00:37:56]. How much if I give myself an extra pile, how much more difficult is the game?
Charlie:
Is it much harder if I take away a pile, do you still solve it? And so if you want it too difficult, too easy, you can't [inaudible 00:38:07] of the game, and our program will tell you how difficult that would be without you having to actually play it yourself.
Larry Hryb:
We talked about the Solitaire anniversary that we're celebrating now. Microsoft Solitaire coming out, certainly Solitaire has been around longer than that. But what do you guys think is the reason that people keep coming back to it time and time again? Is it because it's right there on the Start menu and you click it's done or with some of your research-
Ian:
Yeah.
Larry Hryb:
And observations, what do you think the reason is?
Ian:
I'm not sure I've got a reason. In fact, talking to your team, I was amazed that it ... I kind of had in my mind the impression that people had stopped playing Solitaire because there's so many other games. Because when ... Not when I was young, because I'm old enough that even 30 years doesn't take me, but Windows 95, say, take that generation, you've got Solitaire and, you got Freecell, and you got Minesweeper. And that was the games you had on your computer-
Larry Hryb:
Right.
Ian:
Unless you paid [crosstalk 00:39:11] somebody.
Larry Hryb:
Right.
Ian:
Right, right. But now, of course, you've got any number of games. But yeah, as the numbers of games that are played every day is incredible. So I know it's still there, I know it's huge, and I don't know why. I think it's ... No, I don't know, I've got nothing sorry.
Larry Hryb:
And I don't want to make any assumptions. But Charlie and Ian, I think there's a slight difference in your ages, so I'd be curious, Charlie, what Solitaire does for you?
Charlie:
That's interesting. Yeah, I think probably my first introduction to it was actually, I think, probably be quite young watching my mom play Freecell on our computer or somethingS. So yeah, it's sort of I imagined it's kind of been a bit of a [inaudible 00:39:59] game.
Charlie:
But then I think only with first with Smartphone generate come through, actually it's quite popular as an app. I think it's a very mindless thing to do. You don't have internet connection to necessarily be able to play it like the one that's more complex on games.
Charlie:
And so I think it plays that sort of you're there on the train or whatever and you're playing it. You can sort of kind of zone out a little bit and play it mindlessly, or you can play it and not really engage; it comes back to that whole thing. And so I think it would surprise and as your team would say, "Oh it seems to have a resurgence in popularity perhaps."
Charlie:
Yeah I think it's just that thing of being able to play in these different ways. And it teases you as you as well I think. It seems so easy every time you play, it's "Oh this one's going to come out, it's going to be great." Of course then you get stuck.
Larry Hryb:
Right. When you guys look forward, you've solved quite a few problems and you figured a few things out. What is your next problem to solve? Is it Solitaire or are you guys going to run it down in Monte Carlo to get rich quick? Just playing the numbers game. Do you have another ... What's your next big challenge?
Ian:
I mean I think the ... As I mentioned, In fact, I'm almost not sure how to tackle it. But I would say this question of how can you win if you don't cheat? Or if you're playing with physical cards, and you don't get to look underneath, or you're not using the undo button, that is actually, I think ... In a way, I feel we've made very little progress on that. So we've made far more progress than expected on the first question.
Ian:
And I think the second one is still right out there. But I'm not quite sure what to do about that. So the real problem with that one is you could write a program using machine learning or anything you like, and you could say, "Oh my program wins 38% of games." Or something. But how would you know that nobody else could write a program that would get 39%?
Larry Hryb:
Right.
Ian:
So that's very difficult.
Larry Hryb:
What about you, Charlie, when you look forward? What do you think the next challenge is?
Charlie:
I mean, I think Ian's kind of hit the nail on the head there really. But I still think it's interesting to look at this thing of okay so [inaudible 00:42:39] and games? And how about 39%? Of course what we do when we you have the undo button, we've been able to prove that we've actually found the limit, as it were, was without the undos, you don't know if you've reached the limit.
Charlie:
But I think especially with a lot of the progress that's been made recently in AI, we can do a lot more better that's commonly done with Solitaire app, gain those to the perfect players who can do really well without those undos.
Charlie:
So there's [inaudible 00:43:21] down you're kind of in the dark a little bit as to what's going to happen, but still be able to make a good decision under those circumstances is a challenge. And I think it's something that there's got to do a lot better than has been done already.
Larry Hryb:
Well I can't think of anybody better to talk to about the anniversary of Solitaire, which is now 30 years old, [inaudible 00:43:42] right? So it's crazy, so I want to thank you guys. Ian [inaudible 00:43:44], Charlie [inaudible 00:43:46] you're academics and authors of the 2019 paper, The Win-Ability of Klondike Solitaire and many other Patience games. Gentlemen thank you very much and I hope you have a great day.
Ian:
Thanks you.
Larry Hryb:
And good luck with your research.
Charlie:
Thank you.
Ian:
Thanks very much. Great to talk to you.
Jeff:
Thanks Ian and Charlie and, of course, Larry for a very enlightening ... I didn't know there was that much to know about Solitaire, but here's one thing you didn't talk about.
Larry Hryb:
Yes.
Jeff:
Do you know Solitaire was introduced to Windows 3.0 30 years ago to help people learn how to drag and drop using a mouse-
Larry Hryb:
No.
Jeff:
Because that was new?
Larry Hryb:
Yeah.
Jeff:
People had never done that [crosstalk 00:44:26]. [inaudible 00:44:26] existed was mostly just to click, but the whole drag and drop; we've come so far.
Larry Hryb:
Now I have to ask you a question. First of all, yeah thank you to the guys, because it was great chatting with those guys, they're just so smart. I mean, Ian is a professor and Charlie is working on ... I mean, these are really smart guys trying to solve Solitaire problems.
Jeff:
And now you have to talk to us.
Larry Hryb:
Yeah [crosstalk 00:44:47].
Jeff:
Smart.
Larry Hryb:
But yeah, what's interesting is in your ... I could see on your desk there-
Ian:
This is momma's plate.
Larry Hryb:
Well hold on, I can't ... I don't know why those guys are-
Jeff:
Whoa.
Larry Hryb:
I don't know why those guys are coming on.
Jeff:
They're busting back in here to protest our ignorance.
Larry Hryb:
But I can see on your desk do you have ... You have your mouse.
Jeff:
Yeah, Logitech G-502 big thing.
Larry Hryb:
Now I have to ... I'm in a minority here Jeff, and I don't know if this. But my prefer- ... So your preferred input is mouse?
Jeff:
Yeah, for sure. Do you have a stylus? What the heck is that?
Larry Hryb:
It's a trackball.
Jeff:
Okay.
Larry Hryb:
I have been using trackballs for years, and I just love ... It's so much easier, I can program each of the keys, I can turn the dial the scroll up and down. I mean, it's so much easier for me and I just love ... I'm one of the ver- ... I know in a way minority of people that use trackballs, but I love them.
Jeff:
But you're really good at Missile Command?
Larry Hryb:
Oh-
Jeff:
Man can you just-
Larry Hryb:
You have no idea.
Jeff:
[inaudible 00:45:47] and at golden tee, you get up there and you're just like 400 yard drives every time.
Larry Hryb:
I'm a monster when it comes to that. So yeah, so that's Solitaire and there's a blog post at news.xbox.com that has even more details about the millions of people that play this game every day.
Jeff:
I actually got back into it on iOS, because there's an iOS version. And [inaudible 00:46:10] get achievements from it, you sign in with your gamer tag, and [crosstalk 00:46:14]-
Larry Hryb:
We should put a link to that if you got it.
Jeff:
I'm not taking notes, it's video, I can't be clicking all at the same time.
Larry Hryb:
You could be.
Jeff:
You get the video you get the notes; we'll have to work through this thing.
Larry Hryb:
You get [crosstalk 00:46:26]-
Jeff:
It's a work in progress.
Larry Hryb:
We can't have both. Again, this our first one-
Jeff:
Yes.
Larry Hryb:
Of this new format that we're doing which is, as it says, a video podcast. We're going to do these like this in the future so you can hear us. If you're just listening to the audio on Spotify, or iTunes, or however you get the show, the audio version there's now a video version. So we decided that once Laura left, we'd do video, because I don't know [inaudible 00:46:49].
Jeff:
I wouldn't say it's any better. If you're listening to this on audio, you're killing it.
Larry Hryb:
Speaking of [crosstalk 00:46:54]-
Jeff:
Kidding it.
Larry Hryb:
I took some ... Since we're doing it this way, I was chatting with her last week and she said she wanted to come back on the show and say hello. So we should have her back on.
Jeff:
Why not?
Larry Hryb:
Yeah right, so-
Jeff:
Yeah.
Larry Hryb:
She's working on smart [inaudible 00:47:04].
Jeff:
Has she updated her app? That's what I want to know.
Larry Hryb:
Oh-
Jeff:
Nerd trivia.
Larry Hryb:
Yeah nerd trivia, those were the [crosstalk 00:47:09]-
Jeff:
That's the prerequisite.
Larry Hryb:
Yeah, that's good point, good point. I'll ask her about that. Hit her up on lauralollipop on Twitter. All right, what else we got Jeffrey, because we got a lot going on, it's we're rapidly closing in on in the United States here Memorial Day, which depending on your list-
Jeff:
That's right.
Larry Hryb:
It's either happening, has already happened, which is kind of the unofficial kickoff of summer.
Jeff:
Yes. I haven't left the house in a week, so I just assume that it's going to be pretty much the same as me, except I hopefully will not be checking email that day. I'll be playing ... I'll be in cover roadshow back there on Memorial Day, not at the beach.
Larry Hryb:
It's [crosstalk 00:47:46]-
Jeff:
Starting to open up, which is good. I mean-
Larry Hryb:
Indifferent depending on where [crosstalk 00:47:53]-
Jeff:
Some of us are [inaudible 00:47:53] [ingnormality 00:47:53], yeah-
Larry Hryb:
Yeah, depending on where you are in the world and where you are in the United States, things are starting to open up a little bit, but you just remember to always be careful out there. It's about keeping others safe and yourself safe right? So-
Jeff:
We got to get [inaudible 00:48:05] another Supercuts though as soon as possible.
Larry Hryb:
I think I'm probably going to have my wife take a spin at it. In fact, I was going to have her do it today-
Jeff:
Don't no.
Larry Hryb:
But I said, "No, no, I got to do a video podcast with Jeff. Why don't we do after that? Give me least a few days to ..." Because otherwise let's ... Here's the tip. If on the next show, I have a hat, things didn't go well,
Jeff:
It didn't work out so well.
Larry Hryb:
Yeah. So that's ... Wait a minute, is that the story there?
Jeff:
Well here's the thing. For inside Xbox a few weeks ago, I was wearing headphones, but I shaved the sideburn up. I just took ... I don't have professional hair clippers, but I have a beard trimmer and I just ran it up over here; and it worked, it didn't look bad. The thing is a couple weeks later now, it's out over here it has grown, but down here hasn't. So it's become ... It is not a high end type fade, it just looks bad. So-
Larry Hryb:
I don't know if I told you the story, but we have a mutual friend of ours who same thing, he needed to get a haircut. And everything was sold out on Amazon, he couldn't find hair clippers anywhere. He finally found them and he excitedly hit Add To Cart, checkout, "Okay, it'll be here in two, or five, or 10 days." Whatever it was. And they showed up-
Jeff:
Yeah.
Larry Hryb:
And he ordered animal clippers. So he cut his own-
Jeff:
He could himself a nice poodle cut.
Larry Hryb:
He had no idea, he went ahead and did it. And now he tells me he's got this weird urge every time he pass a fire hydrant; I don't know why.
Jeff:
That's an easy joke, but I know you were going to do it. You're-
Larry Hryb:
You felt me sliding right into it didn't you? I'm sorry about [inaudible 00:49:39].
Jeff:
All right, we all saw it coming, and it was just there was an air of inevitability we were just going to hit it full speed.
Larry Hryb:
You and I haven't seen each other in quite a long time, so I had the chance-
Jeff:
[inaudible 00:49:53] three months, two months? Yeah.
Larry Hryb:
Three months, two months, we haven't had a chance to work together. That goes for everybody at Xbox, we're all working remotely and doing meetings every day, and it's how you doing over there, you all right?
Jeff:
Yeah, yeah. We're lucky to work in games, people are playing games. I love my job, I wish I got to see more often, I wish we got to see the fans, I wish ... I really regret not going to PAX East now. I have-
Larry Hryb:
That was-
Jeff:
Busy stuff-
Larry Hryb:
That was-
Jeff:
And I know you went [crosstalk 00:50:24] and I just had too much going on. No and [crosstalk 00:50:26] if I had known that you were doing nothing after that, I would have been there.
Larry Hryb:
[inaudible 00:50:31] and nothing.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Larry Hryb:
It was ... And meanwhile, I think a mile away was ground zero for the Massachusetts, that Biogen conference where everyone was sick. Do you remember that?
Jeff:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Larry Hryb:
Did you hear about that? So yeah, it was really ... Yeah, I mean who knows what's going to happen when-
Jeff:
Feels like years ago.
Larry Hryb:
It does. I can't even ... Is 2020 over yet?
Jeff:
Yeah this is ... I keep seeing the meme where it's Liz Lemon from 30 Rock with Alec Baldwin, and she's like, "Ah 2020 heck of a year." It's just May lemon. And [crosstalk 00:51:08] it's like "Yeah, that's ..."
Larry Hryb:
It is. We've had this, we've got murder hornets, we've had all sorts of just global insanity.
Jeff:
We live in murder hornet, we're within the rage. And I have wasp traps up there. If one of those get stuck in there, I don't know what I'm going to do. [crosstalk 00:51:21] I'm just going to have to burn the whole thing.
Larry Hryb:
First of all, I'll seen your wasp-
Jeff:
Wasp traps.
Larry Hryb:
The murder hornets, you're going to ... This is what's going to happen Jeff, I guarantee it's going to be on the door and then the murder hornets be handed to you [inaudible 00:51:34].
Jeff:
You left this outside, yeah I think you're right.
Larry Hryb:
Goes, "This belong to you?"
Jeff:
Maybe this is the right summer for you to not leave the house.
Larry Hryb:
Yeah-
Jeff:
Hopefully the murder hornets will move on.
Larry Hryb:
Yeah, I have a whole forest that's right here outside my window, and frankly I'm a little concerned about what ... Because we have a lot of wildlife back here, so I don't know what's ... I got bears, I've got coyote, I had a coyote the other night.
Jeff:
You were getting into beekeeping weren't you?
Larry Hryb:
Yes, yeah I was. I'm trying my [crosstalk 00:52:01]
Jeff:
There's never been a better time to get out of it.
Larry Hryb:
In and out. There's my interest I-
Jeff:
Yeah.
Larry Hryb:
I actually think ... Hold on a second. Where is it? Hold on, I think I got it here, hold on.
Jeff:
You need a green screen too.
Larry Hryb:
Here it is.
Jeff:
Can turn that into a whole Kings Cagney background.
Larry Hryb:
I got my complete [crosstalk 00:52:21].
Jeff:
What is this? Yeah, that would [inaudible 00:52:23] the new self defense complete guide to this is [crosstalk 00:52:29]-
Larry Hryb:
Yeah, I mean, this one was done a few years ago and obviously there needs to be an addendum to this. A special chapter on how to defend your hire for murder hornets. So-
Jeff:
Oh man.
Larry Hryb:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Look, I went to Florida I know a thing or two about invasive species. We have the giant pythons, they're just out there. So hopefully-
Larry Hryb:
Alligators [crosstalk 00:52:52]-
Jeff:
They it won't bother you.
Larry Hryb:
And probably the most deadliest of all in Florida is of course-
Jeff:
Florida man.
Larry Hryb:
Florida man himself, yes.
Jeff:
Yeah. The ultimate invasive species.
Larry Hryb:
Oh boy. All right, what else we have to do today? We got anything else going on?
Jeff:
I think let's just take the rest of the day off.
Larry Hryb:
Wow.
Jeff:
No we can't, I have meetings-
Larry Hryb:
Yep.
Jeff:
In five minutes.
Larry Hryb:
Yeah, you got to get going. I've got to get going.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Larry Hryb:
Hey did you see ... I don't know, Phil posted this on Twitter. Phil Spencer, of course, our illustrious leader. He did a podcast ... I've had him on the show quite a few times. He did a podcast with Reggie from-
Jeff:
I saw that, yeah.
Larry Hryb:
[inaudible 00:53:29] Nintendo, Reggie [inaudible 00:53:30]. So I just retweeted that, so if you want to retweet that earlier you can go ahead and check that out.
Jeff:
Yeah, I'd love to see the two of them interacting. So, I think it goes to show, I've got friends that work at Nintendo, a lot of friends that work at Sony, I know you do too.
Larry Hryb:
Yeah.
Jeff:
It's they're our friends and I do miss them. I missed not seeing them at E3 this year.
Larry Hryb:
Yeah, we miss having those moments at E3 or, as you said, with Pax earlier, but we're still here, and that's one of the reasons that we're doing the podcast this way. I've got a lot of guests lined up. You heard from the Solitaire guys earlier, lining up some great guests for the future. We're going to bring him in here, we're going to ... Wherever they are, we're just going to go to them, bring them in, and we're going to have some fun here. And Jeff and I'll continue to be here and, hopefully, you can-
Jeff:
We'll get Tony Hawk back on the show. I think he'll-
Larry Hryb:
Tony-
Jeff:
Be very excited.
Larry Hryb:
Tony he's fun, he's a good guy. So anyway, all right Jeffrey, I will let you go. For those of you at home listening to us on audio, thank you very much for downloading the show and listening to us and putting up with us for the past hour. We'll be back, Jeff, you're going to be around next week? Maybe we can do this again?
Jeff:
I will, I would love to know if there's feedback. It's a different format-
Larry Hryb:
Yeah.
Jeff:
We're doing our best here from home, but what do people want to see or not see?
Larry Hryb:
Right.
Jeff:
And then we can we can adapt.
Larry Hryb:
Yeah, I don't think they ... I don't know maybe they want to put a little something in the background there, maybe a little plant or something?
Jeff:
Maybe a clock that actually works because it is not.
Larry Hryb:
Are there hands on that clock?
Jeff:
20 after 11 says hands that ... There's just not-
Larry Hryb:
As you like [crosstalk 00:55:02] to remind everybody it'll be right twice a day.
Jeff:
Exactly. It's covering a hole in the wall, so we'll just-
Larry Hryb:
[inaudible 00:55:09]
Jeff:
Go with that.
Larry Hryb:
One of those anyway. All right, gang. We'll let you go, have a great weekend. Have a great ... If you're in the U.S., have a great holiday. Stay safe and we will be back next time. If you have any questions, just hit us up. You can see our Twitter handles right here. Find me @majornelson, find Jeffrey where Jeffrey?
Jeff:
@jeffrey [inaudible 00:55:29] or @gamertagsgroups, hope to see you online. And I know there's holidays in Europe and also in the UK is a bank holiday on Monday. So I don't know what it is, but I hope you enjoy it.
Larry Hryb:
Wherever you are, have fun and we'll see you guys later. Bye everybody.