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Larry Hyrb:
Hi, it's Larry Hyrb, Xbox's Major Nelson. Welcome to the show. We got another podcast here. We've got Jeff, who's over there in the other box. Hi, Jeff. Where are you?
Jeff Rubenstein:
Hi, I am, for the first time in over a year, working from the office. Where, as you can see, this beautiful office light is-
Larry Hyrb:
Hold on a minute. Hold on a minute. Let's go full screen and look. Wow. Look at that.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Okay. Okay. Yeah. So we're in the middle of moving. My house is a disaster. I, literally, can't even get to my desk. So I was like, oh, I'll bring everything in. It'll sit right up, but it takes a little while. Now, here's the thing I want you to know.
Larry Hyrb:
Yes.
Jeff Rubenstein:
When you see Phil, and he's in his office, people start looking in the background, what's back there? It's all [crosstalk 00:00:40]-
Larry Hyrb:
By the way, that's not his office. That's his wife's office. A lot of people don't know that. I call it-
Jeff Rubenstein:
True, but-
Larry Hyrb:
... the beige cave.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Well, there's that one. But then sometimes it's easy in his actual office, and people start looking for figurines or whatever in the background. So here we've got a box of tissues, I think-
Larry Hyrb:
Right there.
Jeff Rubenstein:
... it's Erin's desk. Oop, a bottle of champagne, so good weekend for me? There's a Rainbow Dash figurine, I think back there.
Larry Hyrb:
By the way, do you know what's over your-
Jeff Rubenstein:
There's no secrets. There's no secrets.
Larry Hyrb:
... left shoulder?
Jeff Rubenstein:
What?
Larry Hyrb:
My desk.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Oh, yes. So, if you were always wondering where Larry sits, he's right behind me, usually, in that corner, usually slinging insults or... Or actually, remember what you used to do. That I do not miss it all? And you know what I'll go to say.
Larry Hyrb:
Yes.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Is I'll be typing something or doing something or stretching. Because I would just stretch-
Larry Hyrb:
Or have a conversation with somebody behind you.
Jeff Rubenstein:
... and you would take a picture from behind me and post it without my consent.
Larry Hyrb:
On Twitter.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Generally good natured, I will say, don't miss it.
Larry Hyrb:
Okay.
Jeff Rubenstein:
But, anyway-
Larry Hyrb:
I appreciate that.
Jeff Rubenstein:
... enough, this... Welcome to the office. [crosstalk 00:01:50]-
Larry Hyrb:
Well, we do have a little... First of all, that's why I wanted to go to that, let's go back in here. A couple things, Rebecca is off this week, she and Pumbaa are doing... I don't know what's going on, but she said she's-
Jeff Rubenstein:
Visiting family. Visiting family.
Larry Hyrb:
Visiting family, so I don't... Pumbaa's family or Rebecca's family? I don't know, so either way.
Jeff Rubenstein:
That's a great question.
Larry Hyrb:
So Jeff and I were talking like, wow, we love having Rebecca on. I've rebuilt the entire show to have a third slot, Jeff, who should we get on? And that's when I went to you, and said, "What should we do here?"
Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah, so we were talking about it, and so part of my job is working with podcasters for a living. And a lot of times, if you see someone like-
Larry Hyrb:
Not just me.
Jeff Rubenstein:
... you-
Larry Hyrb:
Not just me.
Jeff Rubenstein:
... or Jason Ronald, or Phil Spencer or Sarah Bond on a podcast, chances are I had something to do with that, a little booking and everything. And just last week, Jason Ronald talking about FPS Boost and a number of other things, was on a great podcast called Spawn on Me.
Larry Hyrb:
Oh, yeah.
Jeff Rubenstein:
I was listening to that podcast, which is hosted by Kahlief Adams. And I'm like, this guy is an amazing interviewer and we've had a few folks... Chris Charla was on there. Sarah Bond was on there, I want to say last year or early this year. And I just kept being impressed by like... Good interviewers, they don't just think about what's top of mind. They get behind the eyes and figure out sort of, what makes this person tick? And what's great about them? And that's something that could Kahlief is awesome at doing. So I asked him, would you be willing to join the Xbox podcast?
Larry Hyrb:
Guest co-host. So ladies and gentlemen, let me hit this button, hang on, because we're going to rearrange some boxes here, so that we can bring him in here, because this a big talent. Here we go.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Hold on tight.
Larry Hyrb:
Kahlief.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Hey.
Larry Hyrb:
Good to see you my friend.
Kahlief Adams:
Hey gents. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. And Jeff, you have me in the green room blushing, already, early this morning with such kind words-
Jeff Rubenstein:
It's true.
Kahlief Adams:
... for me and the show. So thank you so much. Again, I'm excited to rock with you, being a big fan of both of you for a very long time. So getting a chance to do this, definitely, checks off a bucket list item for me.
Larry Hyrb:
Well, as Jeff was saying, Kahlief, when he came to me and said, "Why don't we get Kahlief on?" I'm like, "Can we? Do you think he'd do it?" So I was so excited to have you here. And it's such a pleasure. I mean, Rebecca is out, so we figured we'll bring in... We'll kind of maybe do this every now and then, if Jeff's out, we'll bring somebody else in, but I want to start reaching out to the community, and you're the very first guest cohost to come on.
Kahlief Adams:
Oh, my.
Larry Hyrb:
So let's welcome. Welcome, welcome.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Yes, absolutely. Thanks so much.
Kahlief Adams:
Oh, that's wild to know that I'm breaking barriers. I'm taking it on every day. That's fantastic. Again, thank you so much for having me. Again, a big, big fan of all the work that you both do, and this is super cool to get a chance to do this with you also. I'm ready to rock, let's get it in. I'm ready to [crosstalk 00:04:40]-
Larry Hyrb:
Well, before we get going, we'll do it at the end as well, but why don't you just tell people, I mean, I got some stuff up in here on screen where they find you on social, but Jeff mentioned your podcast, where do they find your podcast?
Kahlief Adams:
Yeah, we're on every platform, at this point, we're part of the Fanbyte network, a part of their massive suite of podcasts. I've been doing Spawn on Me for about eight years now. We're about to hit our 400th episode, fairly soon.
Larry Hyrb:
Well, done.
Kahlief Adams:
And we... Thank you. It's been an interesting eight years. Who knew that we'd still be around this long kicking and screaming our way into podcasting fame, if that's where we're ever going to get. But it's been amazing. We've been kind of starting this process of trying to spotlight people of color and marginalized folks in the video game industry, because that was the thing that, when I started this process and started this with my former co-host, it was the thing that just wasn't in the space. It wasn't a part of the ecosystem, and the way that we talk about games media and talking about it through this prism of our life and through the ways that we see the world.
Kahlief Adams:
So it's been fantastic to be able to work with you all and have wonderful folks on the show, and been able to broaden that conversation out for our audience, and for all the folks in Xbox land. And it's been so cool to be able to do this work. It's a lot of fun.
Larry Hyrb:
Well, very well put and we appreciate all the work that you're doing over there. I mean, that's one of the things we're trying to do is shine the light on some of the great work that's being done, not just in the game's industry, but in kind of the areas and the industries that surround us like yourself. So we're so excited. I mean, you know the format of the show, we talk about what we're playing. I got some interviews later on. Jeff may or may not have some news. So we'll see, right Jeff?
Jeff Rubenstein:
I've got news. Look, I'm in the center of news. There's no one else in this office, but I promise you, there is news this week.
Larry Hyrb:
That is a newsroom, but we usually start off by what we're playing, so I figured, Kahlief, why don't you tell... What's on your console? I mean, actually, I want to just show something real interesting, because I think this is the first time we've seen this before, Jeff. Do you see what's over his right shoulder? Not only does he have a refrigerator and X-Box Series S, that's a PlayStation tucked in between the two.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah.
Kahlief Adams:
Yeah, there's a couple of-
Jeff Rubenstein:
And the fridge is only marginally taller. I should [inaudible 00:06:54]. I don't mean that.
Kahlief Adams:
I did get an email from someone the other day who had seen the shot, and they said, 'When did the Xbox Series X get bigger than the PlayStation 5?" And I was like, "Well, you know, they have shrink rays and grow rays and ways they do that kind of stuff." They were excited to see the Xbox Series X/ZOA fridge in the background.
Larry Hyrb:
And to be clear, so the reality is, there's so many games in Game Pass. We had to make the console bigger. No, that's not, that's not true at all. No, that's actually a limited edition, special refrigerator that Jeff and his team sent out to a bunch of influencers. So if we open it, what's in there. Do you have anything in there?
Jeff Rubenstein:
Ask the right question.
Kahlief Adams:
There's a couple of cans of ZOA in there right now, actually.
Larry Hyrb:
Okay, okay. Okay.
Kahlief Adams:
So they're on ice, so to speak, and it was cool, because it was the first time I got a chance to have correspondence with the Rock on Twitter, which was nuts. It was super cool.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah, that was great. He was very active, replying to folks. And you have the glasses, I see on the top, the one eyebrow up aviators.
Kahlief Adams:
I lost my mind. I had a friend, my wife's friend was like, "Did you know that your husband is talking to the Rock on Twitter?" I was like-
Larry Hyrb:
NBD.
Kahlief Adams:
... "Wait a minute. Is that actually the Rock?" Like, "It's actually the Rock," that's so wild. So yeah, it's super cool. It is now the cornerstone of our sponsor desk. So it's super cool to have that in here, and rock with it, so that was fun.
Larry Hyrb:
Well, I want to thank you, because-
Kahlief Adams:
Oh, but, what I'm playing.
Jeff Rubenstein:
I just think-
Larry Hyrb:
Yeah, let's talk about what you're playing.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Yes.
Kahlief Adams:
Oh, I forgot to talk about that. So I've finished Returnal, which was fantastic, and super fun on the PlayStation. And then I've just finished up Resident Evil 8, Resident Evil Village, and that was so good. I'm a huge horror fan. So getting a chance to run through that and get a chance to play it and just be disgusted, and in awe of all the wonderful things Capcom was able to put into that game, it was brilliant. And definitely one of my... in the higher ups in my game of the year discussions already halfway through the year. So those are a couple of games I've been running through. And of course, I've been playing a lot of MLB: The show. So I've been digging back in there, my [crosstalk 00:09:05]-
Larry Hyrb:
Available on Game Pass.
Kahlief Adams:
Available on Game Pass. My Brookago Biscuits are doing well. That's the name of my team. And they have been doing all right. My road to the show character is learning and failing often, but he's trying to get himself there into the majors, and at least into AAA at this point. Because I mean, he's still in double, so we're trying to make sure he gets into the league. So, yeah, it's been a lot of fun, a lot of good stuff on the plate right now.
Larry Hyrb:
Awesome. That's great. Jeff?
Jeff Rubenstein:
Did you build your own stadium? And if so, is there a barbecue place and who's on the grill? That's what I want to know?
Larry Hyrb:
Oh.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Because if you're playing, you can't be on the grill.
Larry Hyrb:
The real questions.
Kahlief Adams:
I haven't dug into the stadium builder yet, but it will probably have a little bit of Citi Field feel to it, because I'm a big Mets fan. So it is blasphemous-
Larry Hyrb:
You're Mets fan?
Kahlief Adams:
... for me to say that.
Larry Hyrb:
Right here. You and I are Mets fans.
Kahlief Adams:
Yeah, it is blasphemous.
Larry Hyrb:
I love that.
Kahlief Adams:
See, I appreciate you. See this is great.
Larry Hyrb:
I love that.
Kahlief Adams:
It is blasphemous for me to say that, because I'm from the Bronx, originally, so Yankees fans get mad at me for saying that out loud. But it's true, I'm a Mets fan. I've been an Amazin's fan since they won the World Series back in, what, '85 or something like that?
Larry Hyrb:
I remember that.
Kahlief Adams:
Something like that.
Larry Hyrb:
Timmy Teufel shuffle. I remember that.
Jeff Rubenstein:
'86. '86. Yeah.
Kahlief Adams:
'86. Yeah, Darryl Strawberry, man. That long stride.
Jeff Rubenstein:
'86, that was when they beat the Red Sox. Yeah.
Kahlief Adams:
Uh-huh (affirmative). Yeah.
Jeff Rubenstein:
So when you build your stadium though, would it be safe to say there would be like a [Paris Lilly's 00:10:33] Barbecue or something like that? Will that be a thing. I always see the two of you going back and forth on who's a better griller. And I just think that's [crosstalk 00:10:46]-
Larry Hyrb:
I'd like to make a request. I'd actually like Kahlief-
Kahlief Adams:
Yes.
Larry Hyrb:
... when you build your stadium, would you make it in the shape of a grill like this-
Kahlief Adams:
If I could.
Larry Hyrb:
... just make the whole thing a big grill.
Kahlief Adams:
I have to go see if I can get the folks from the SDS to let me know if I can actually do that. They even have to put some assets in there and make that happen. I will say this though, there won't be a grill in the stadium, but if you are a fan of the Hitman 3 series, and the Hitman games, this month, we are going to be featuring some contracts. They're going to do some featured Spawn on Me contracts in there. And one of them may have some grill conversations or conversations around food and Paris in it. So you may want to-
Larry Hyrb:
There you go. Exclusive.
Kahlief Adams:
... stay tuned for that.
Jeff Rubenstein:
That will become canon in the Hitman universe, so he can't... How is he going to respond to that? All right, we'll leave it at that, to the [crosstalk 00:11:41]-
Kahlief Adams:
We'll see, because-
Jeff Rubenstein:
... surprise.
Kahlief Adams:
... it won't go out until, probably, the 20th or so, so he'll probably hear this before that. So he'll know what's coming, but it'll be fun to see.
Larry Hyrb:
But he really won't know what's coming, right?
Kahlief Adams:
Oh, I really... We won't tell him that it's going to be a thing, but it'll be a thing.
Larry Hyrb:
Well, that's great. Awesome.
Jeff Rubenstein:
We need to put a bounty out for a screenshot of that. But let's talk about RE Village. I've been playing that and I'm not anywhere near done, mostly, because I need to play it in 20 minute increments, because something crazy will happen. And then, I get to save the game, and I'm like, "I need a break." And by the way, this is, maybe, the first time I've really been like, "Thank God for quick resume."
Jeff Rubenstein:
Because there are times where I can't get to a safe point, I just hit pause, and I just turn it off and I need to walk away. Because the game is intense, and I'm very glad that I can step away and come back when I'm ready. Because I'm being stocked through the castle by Lady Dimitrescu. Honestly, I thought that would be a dream come true on some level, but [crosstalk 00:12:46]-
Larry Hyrb:
It's actually a nightmare.
Jeff Rubenstein:
... maybe not. It's actually a nightmare.
Larry Hyrb:
Yeah. It's interesting, Jeff, because you talked about MLB, Kahlief, that supports quick resume, Resident Evil Village supports quick resume. So we've got some good stuff there, for getting back in as quick as possible. I mean, I love it. So Jeff, you talked about... I mean, it's funny, I have Resident Evil downloaded. I haven't even pressed A yet to start it, because you've been talking it up and about it.
Jeff Rubenstein:
All right, so let me give you the chicken's guide to Resident Evil Village.
Larry Hyrb:
Wait a minute, are you judging? Are you judging?
Jeff Rubenstein:
No. Oh no. This is from firsthand experience.
Larry Hyrb:
Okay.
Jeff Rubenstein:
All right. So I'm going to tell you, so I've always loved the Resident Evil games. They've always scared the hell out of me. But once they went into first-person with Resident Evil 7, it was too much. It was just too much. But then, I'll be honest, I got caught up in the hype with Village. The marketing's been on point. It's been, so... I was like, you know what? I have to just like, suck it up, and I'm going to play, even though I know I'm going to be scared.
Larry Hyrb:
You're great.
Jeff Rubenstein:
And by the way, completely delivered, in the first 15 minutes, where I was freaking out. But all right, so I'm playing with, and look, you can judge me all you want, but it is what it is. Daytime, shades are wide open. I have to turn that brightness slider, how far to the right? It's all the way to 11. Not using headphones. And in fact, I'm having to come through my TV, and it's only like 10 out of 50 volume. All right, because all these little cracks, the sound design is phenomenal, so every little crack of like a branch, I'm like, literally, jumping. There isn't really a point well before you even face anybody, and you're going through a house and it was just like the cabinet moved, and I almost dropped the controller. I dropped it to easy level. I'm not going to lie, because, normally, most games I play on normal.
Larry Hyrb:
Right. Default.
Jeff Rubenstein:
And the first lycan that I encountered took 14 shots to drop, with at least five headshots in that mix. And I was like, you know what-
Larry Hyrb:
So your clip was empty.
Jeff Rubenstein:
... the game is going to be scary, I don't want to be stressed out over resource management. I kind of just want to... This game is almost like a theme park for horror. There's like, you go to Disneyland, there's Tomorrowland and Fantasyland, and Adventureland. This has just like-
Larry Hyrb:
Something for everybody.
Jeff Rubenstein:
... Vampirelands and a couple of different biomes, if you... biomes of horror. And I kind of want to go along for the ride, I don't want to have to be stressed on top of it. Now-
Larry Hyrb:
No.
Jeff Rubenstein:
... the look I can see on your face, Kahlief, is like, you are playing this game all wrong. And I totally get it, but it's the only way I'm going-
Kahlief Adams:
Oh, no.
Jeff Rubenstein:
... to get through, but it can be done, Larry-
Kahlief Adams:
No judgment.
Jeff Rubenstein:
... because I know you're not a horror game... Oh, you can-
Kahlief Adams:
No judgment at all. I probably played it in the complete opposite way, dark room, everything's super loud-
Larry Hyrb:
Headphones on.
Kahlief Adams:
... waiting for everything to hit me, headphones on. It's just like waiting for stuff to go down. But you're right, it is one of those like super ridiculous, amazingly, wild rides, that you're just like, I don't know what to expect next, but everything is happening at once. And I need to figure out ways to kind of mitigate that and manage it in a good way, so I don't freak myself out every two minutes. But it is a fantastic ride. I'm excited for you to check it out, Larry, because I think there's going to be interesting spaces there for you. Are you a horror fan? Or you kind of like horror adjacent, is what I like to tell people?
Larry Hyrb:
I'll duck in to see what all the buzz is about, but I have zero... I just... Jump scares are like, I got enough in my life, I don't need that
Jeff Rubenstein:
You beat Alien Isolation, right? I mean that's kind of scary.
Larry Hyrb:
Well, but my connection to that level of horror was because I love the Alien franchise, so that's what pulled me in. Not that I don't like Resident Evil franchise, but it just never pulled me in like the Alien, the movies did and so forth. I mean, I'll give it a try. It's up here, I promise.
Jeff Rubenstein:
You should. At least give it the first hour or so, and you'll get a nice feel for SOME of the things that this game will throw at you. By the way, can we just talk about Ethan's pain tolerance? Because I get a paper cut and I'm looking for a Band-Aid, and the things that happened to this guy, just in the first hour. Somebody, actually, I saw on Twitter put together like an Excel sheet of all the things that just happened to him in Castle Dimitrescu. You know how after a certain, it goes A, B, and then it gets into like AA, once you get past 26?
Kahlief Adams:
Yeah.
Jeff Rubenstein:
It was that many things. And that's one area of the game. I mean, it's just... Wolverine did not go through this much stuff in all of the X-Men movies put together.
Kahlief Adams:
Yeah. There's many, many conversations about hands when it comes to Ethan in that conversation. So I won't talk about it, because I don't want to spoil it for Larry, but lots of conversations about how that works, and what that means for that character in that story. You're absolutely right, Jeff, that man is a tortured soul, both in his soul and in his actual body, it's just unreasonable what they do to that man.
Larry Hyrb:
All right. What else you playing Jeffrey?
Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah. Oh, I finally, after a calculated 98 and one quarter hours beat the real ending of Dragon Quest XI S-
Larry Hyrb:
98 hours.
Jeff Rubenstein:
... Definitive version. It's amazing. I love this... Look, if you like a classic RPG. The first RPG I ever played was the original Dragon Quest, which was called Dragon Warrior back on the NES. And there's a lot of throwbacks to it. You actually get to play certain scenes from it, if you choose to that are sort of optional content. And I just enjoyed this game all the way through. And I think we talked about this before, I was like, you see the credits the first time, that's a speed bump. That lets you know you're two thirds done, the actual game. And I cleaned up all the different things. I sort of finished all the storylines.
Jeff Rubenstein:
This game if you play it the way it can be played, you can tie up every loose end. And there's just a lot of thoughtfulness, seeds that are planted 50 hours ago come to bloom later. I just think that was just a genius game. It was really great. And after that, when I'm calming down from Resident Evil, I'm into Judgment. Judgment remastered by the makers of Yakuza RGG Studios. I'm learning a lot about the Japanese court system. Apparently, the conviction rate is 99.9%, which is very interesting. So next time I'm in Japan, I will be on much better behavior than I have in the past.
Larry Hyrb:
That's why, what was the... Remember the CEO of Nissan, he was smuggled out of Japan in like a cello case or something, because he knew that it was-
Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah, I remember hearing that.
Larry Hyrb:
... the writing was on the wall, regardless of what happened. I mean, it's crazy. But I'm glad you're learning more about Japanese culture, Jeffrey.
Jeff Rubenstein:
And, of course, after we had hosted [inaudible 00:19:55] from RGG Studio, joined us from Tokyo a couple of weeks ago, which was awesome. And he was teasing... There was a countdown timer, and that countdown timer led to a great announcement, which was Last Judgment, the sequel to Judgment, which will be out on Xbox series X and S, and Xbox One, actually, I want to say, in the fall, I don't want to get the date wrong, but maybe September. So if you've been enjoying Judgment, know that you're on the clock, because four months from now, we get another one. So as someone who's discovered the Yakuza series over the course of the last year, being able to just-
Larry Hyrb:
Discover it is putting it lightly.
Jeff Rubenstein:
It's just an endless source of content. Discovered-
Larry Hyrb:
Discovered is putting it lightly. I would say-
Jeff Rubenstein:
Immersed myself into-
Larry Hyrb:
... embracing, immersed. Yeah, [inaudible 00:20:42].
Jeff Rubenstein:
I just love... I have some friends who have just gotten different shows... Well, a lot of people have been discovering things, but Ted Lasso, did you either of you watch-
Kahlief Adams:
Oh, yeah.
Jeff Rubenstein:
... watch Ted Lasso on an Apple TV?
Larry Hyrb:
I have not.
Kahlief Adams:
I keep hearing good things about it.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Even if you don't like soccer, you got to watch it. It's about an American football coach who goes over and ends up coaching in England. And it's just like a heartwarming show. Everyone who watches it falls in love with it. And people I'm seeing, I've discovered in the last couple of weeks, it's like, guess what, season two's like next month. So it's just like that awesome feeling, like I found something great and there's more of it that's continuing to come. And that's me with the Yakuza series. I don't know, Kahlief, if you have ever gotten in to it. Larry, he just lives vicariously through me.
Larry Hyrb:
Because I don't need to. I feel like you're giving so much, you're playing enough for 10 people.
Jeff Rubenstein:
That may be true.
Kahlief Adams:
I've played a bit of the most recent one, which is brilliant. It's super, super cool. And that's my first foray into the series. So it feels like a good place to start as a new Yakuza player, but also, there's so much lore about all the players involved that I feel like I need to go back now and check out some of the stuff in that space too. So it's super fun. It's wacky, it's nuts, but it's cool.
Larry Hyrb:
Yeah. That's exactly what it is.
Jeff Rubenstein:
If you played Like a Dragon, if that was the one you played-
Kahlief Adams:
Yeah.
Jeff Rubenstein:
... it's a great starting point. That's actually why I played Dragon Quest, because they're always talking about Dragon Quest in that game. And so it sort of reverse psychology'd me, and I ended up playing Dragon Quest afterwards, which was the right call. It's part of Game Pass, by the way, you should absolutely check that out, Dragon Quest is. So Like a Dragon, they also announced, alongside Last Judgment, that they're going to keep it in the turn base. So if you really liked Like a Dragon, it's going to stay as an RPG, as opposed to a brawler. The brawling happens in the Judgment franchise. That also, was very well received by me, because I loved Like a Dragon, I was hoping it wouldn't be a one off RPG.
Larry Hyrb:
And really, that's all that matters, when it comes to this.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah. I mean, I don't. Is there a dig in there, Larry? Because, I totally agree with that statement.
Larry Hyrb:
No, I was just saying, because at the end of the day that, you're such a... We;ve talked about this Kahlief, he's a Judgment and a Yakuza influencer. So that;s-
Kahlief Adams:
Oh, is this true-
Larry Hyrb:
Oh, yeah.
Kahlief Adams:
... Jeff? I didn't this. What? Okay.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Self-proclaimed. Self-proclaimed. I like the real Judgment influencer and Yakuza influencer is Brittney, blondenerd, who really sort of... She's very active on Twitter about the series at all times and Resident Evil for that matter. And she encouraged me to play both of them-
Larry Hyrb:
Here we are.
Jeff Rubenstein:
... and she has not led me astray yet. Yet.
Larry Hyrb:
We've got to get-
Kahlief Adams:
I love it.
Larry Hyrb:
We've got to get moving along here, because we got some interviews coming up. But I just want to say, I finally... Yeah, it's on... you can't see the screen behind me. DOOM Eternal, I finally finished it. I've been playing it, I swear-
Kahlief Adams:
Oh, nice.
Jeff Rubenstein:
You did?
Larry Hyrb:
... I think, I've been playing it for about a year and it just... Not nonstop, but Kahlief, have you played it? Because this game is hard. This is not easy.
Kahlief Adams:
I love that game. I love that game. It is so, so good. It is very, very hard, though. It's interesting, because the conversations are like, "Which one is harder, Returnal or DOOM Eternal?" And to be fair, DOOM Eternal, for me, was much harder than Returnal was. It's wild, yeah.
Larry Hyrb:
I'm glad I finally finished that. Actually, to your point, I'm going back and kind of going through some of the chapters now that I finished it, and trying to pick up some of the collectibles. Anyway, that was my big deal this week, is I finally finished that after, it's been about a year, on and off playing it. Because it just... I got to some... A couple of these levels, Kahlief, because you know you got to do a lot of the acrobatics to get around and whatnot.
Kahlief Adams:
Yeah.
Larry Hyrb:
And I was like, I got to take a break and I would go back and play it for two hours, couldn't get past, finally got past it. So anyway, yah.
Kahlief Adams:
Congrats.
Larry Hyrb:
Thank you.
Kahlief Adams:
Nicely done.
Larry Hyrb:
Thank you very much. Jeff, we got some interviews queued up here. I don't know if you want to bring us into the interview, so we can get cooking along here.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah. Well, why don't we do that? First, I know we wanted to talk about National Mental Health Day. So we've been talking with Tara Voelker from Microsoft about that, and then we're going to be talking games. So why don't we get straight to the interview.
Larry Hyrb:
May is Mental Health Awareness month, and Xbox is amplifying voices of empathy, honesty and mental health awareness. Joining me today is Team Xbox member, Tara Voelker, who's the Gaming and Disability co-lead. Tara, welcome to the show and nice to chat with you.
Tara Voelker:
Hello. I'm so excited to be here today.
Larry Hyrb:
Yeah, this is exciting. I mean, as I said earlier, May is Mental Health Awareness month, and there's, also, we've got Accessibility Awareness day coming up as well, right? Because, those are two areas that you kind of work within.
Tara Voelker:
Yes. So the third Thursday of every May, every year is Global Accessibility Awareness Day or GAAD, G-A-A-D, as you'll see it on social media.
Larry Hyrb:
Great. Now, you've got a blog post that's up on Xbox Wired, news.xbox.com, talking about Mental Health Awareness Day and Accessibility Awareness Day. Tell us a little bit about what the post says, and what you do at Xbox.
Tara Voelker:
One of the things that's really important during May and Mental Health Awareness Month is, literally, just talking about mental health and the benefits of gaming. In the blog, I go on to talk about how important, especially during the pandemic, gaming can be for mental health. We talk about gaming provided a great distraction for 82.9, and it was 90% of people who responded to survey. That helps with emotional stress, that it's helped relieve physical pain, and that there's tons of benefits. I personally have benefited from gaming, helping me with my PTSD.
Tara Voelker:
And it's really important to share those stories, make it normal, but also go through and highlight games that are doing great depictions of those struggling with mental health, because it needs to be more normalized. Everyone wants to see themselves in a video game and for some of us it's having a mental health struggle.
Larry Hyrb:
I want to back up a little bit and talk about your journey to Xbox. Tell us how you ended up at Team Xbox as the Gaming and Disability co-lead.
Tara Voelker:
Yeah. It was a little bit of a winding route to get here. I'm going to be honest. Xbox poached me from PlayStation. Yeah, so I was working at PlayStation, and actually a recruiter had reached out to me about possible openings. Xbox because, we want to have a diverse workforce and we want to champion things like accessibility and inclusion and underrepresented communities, we recruit people in that space. And so I was reached out to... And here's my cat, Leon.
Larry Hyrb:
Oh, hello, Leon. Goodbye, Leon.
Tara Voelker:
So I was reached out to, and I was really happy at PlayStation. I was getting to do some cool accessibility things, but to be honest, the Gaming for Everyone program had just launched. And I had friends who worked at Xbox and were telling me more about all of the work that happens with the Gaming for Everyone program internally. About making sure that we're not only capturing all of these underrepresented groups, but having Xbox be a better place to work for them., so we have better retention.
Tara Voelker:
And basically, the person who was the co-lead at the time was just like, "If you come here, you could team up with me. We could figure out what we could do." And, yeah, after hearing about the gaming for Everyone program, and knowing I could be involved, I was like, "I got to go. This is it. This is what I need to do."
Larry Hyrb:
Well, first of all, welcome. I mean, I know you've been here for quite some time, but I want to say welcome. I know it's... You and I haven't met in person, only virtually and electronically. So it's great to have you on the team, and doing the work. You talked a moment ago about the extraordinary number of people, especially during the pandemic, that have turned to gaming for solace and mental relief and kind of keep themselves well, let's talk a little bit about mental health within games, because that's also an interesting angle as well, right? Tell me about that.
Tara Voelker:
Yeah. For a long time in gaming, it's not been a great representation, actually. You see a lot of, someone has a moment that makes them snap, and then they become a villain. And that was, for a long time, the only representation of mental health in video games. And it's not something you really want to see. You don't want that character to be the one that you're most connected with. But, recently, in the past few years, with games like Hellblade, in particular, for Ninja Theory and Psychonauts 2, we're starting to see games that are exploring it in a real way, but also embracing this accessibility notion of nothing about us without us.
Tara Voelker:
I mean, one of the reasons that Senau's Sacrifice touched so many people was the work that he did to accurately represent what having a psychosis was like. They had an idea, they brought it to both experts in the field and people who suffer from psychosis, and they were just like, "Whoa, you guys are totally going the wrong direction. Here's what it's like. Here's what I experience." They brought that back, worked on it, and then brought it to the people. And they were like, "Wow, this is it. I see myself in game now." And that's really powerful. Especially for a group that, like I said, the only representation out there was both inaccurate and kind of terrifying.
Larry Hyrb:
Yeah. We talk about the in-game and that's certainly great. I mean, I loved... Who didn't love Hellblade, I mean, it was an amazing game. But you're right, it also surfaced some of these other issues, and maybe helped some folks realize that, A, I'm not alone with some of the issues that I may be struggling with, and, B, here's a character or a set of characters that I may identify with. One of the other areas you talk about in the blog post for Xbox Mental Health Awareness, well, it's Mental Health Awareness Month, and Xbox, we've got a lot of activity, is online safety. Tell us a little bit about online safety and the Crisis Text Line.
Tara Voelker:
Yeah. So one of the things that happens is you may be struggling, you may not know who to talk to, and sometimes talking to someone can be, frankly, terrifying. And so we've partnered with the Crisis Text Line to give a really easy way for you to just reach out and get help from a certified counselor, who will be able to help you. It's a nonprofit organization, it's free, text-based, 24/7 support. And so, if you need a crisis counselor, and you weren't sure where to go, we want to help you get the help you need, so you can just reach out via that hotline.
Larry Hyrb:
Yeah. It's important to point out that, as I said earlier, is that some people may be struggling with issues they may not know what it is, or be able to identify what it is, and they're like, they don't know who to turn to or who to ask. So it's great that we've got some of these resources out there. There's a lot of other elements, we talked about it being Mental Health Awareness Month, but Accessibility Awareness Day, we're going to be playing some games as well, right? That's going to be... Depending on when you're listening to this later on in the month, tell us about the date, and what y'all are going to be playing, and where to find that.
Tara Voelker:
Yes. First off, we're going to be having some cool things that are going to be... that we're going to talk about in an upcoming Wire post. By the time this comes out, we will have announced a new feature that's actually going to be in a preview in our Insider Ring, so keep a look out for that. I don't want to mess it up. Global Party Chat, Text, Speech synthesis, it's in the Insider Ring, because this doesn't come out till later, so it'll be out.
Larry Hyrb:
Well, that's a lot of words, but explain to us what the feature is.
Tara Voelker:
Yeah. So this is actually really exciting. So if we were talking on Xbox Live party chat, let's say I were deaf or hard of hearing, there wouldn't really be a way for me to know what you're saying. With this feature, it will take the words you're saying, verbally, and put them to texts for me to read, in party chat. We've had it before in select games, but this is going to be party chat-
Larry Hyrb:
Global.
Tara Voelker:
And you don't actually have to be in a game. It's going to be global launch, so pretty excited about that one.
Larry Hyrb:
I mean, that helps not only, from an accessibility standpoint, folks that, perhaps, need some assistance there, but it's also, perhaps, people that maybe want to learn English as a second language or anything like that. It's just just helps everybody, right?
Tara Voelker:
It is. I mean, that's the great thing about so many of these accessibility features. At Microsoft, we have the solve for one extent on many of inclusive design, but we have a lot of stuff going on. So you'll see it in that blog post. And then we are also going to be doing a live stream, featuring me and Steve Saylor, you may have seen him at the Ability Summit, recently, doing the keynote with the one and only Phil Spencer.
Larry Hyrb:
Yes.
Tara Voelker:
We're going to be talking about accessibility, and we're going to be playing some games. We're still trying to pick exactly which one we want to play. Last time we did something like this, we played Sea of Thieves, and I accidentally blew everyone up with a barrel, so we may have to go with a different game this time.
Larry Hyrb:
And that's fair, it's important to note, Tara, that's not... I mean, I know it's an accident, but that's kind of a rite of passage when you're playing Sea of Thieves.
Tara Voelker:
Yeah. No, I just did it on like a huge Global Accessibility Day live stream with some really, well-respected accessibility advocates and pioneers.
Larry Hyrb:
Oops.
Tara Voelker:
So that's... You know, it happens.
Larry Hyrb:
It happens. I mean, we all play games. And that's the beautiful part about playing the games, especially live streaming, is anything can happen. One of the other areas that you touch on in the blog post, and again, I'll have a link in the show notes and for my podcast, and for people to go and take a look at it, but we talk about Microsoft Rewards. Now that's one that people go like, "Wait, what?" So explain that, because that's an interesting program.
Tara Voelker:
I am really excited about this one. So basically, as you go and you get points with the Microsoft Reward program, this has members in the United States, you can donate those points to organizations for charity. And so we have two different charities that we're partnering with for this month. Take This, which is all about decreasing stigma and increasing support for mental health, particularly, for the gaming enthusiastic community, and those who work in video games. But also, CheckPoint, which, again, provides mental health resources for gaming and the gaming communities. So using your Microsoft Reward points, you'll be able to donate them to either of those charities, so that's really, really exciting.
Larry Hyrb:
I want to point something out as Mental Health Awareness Month is May, right now, which is a great opportunity, but there's work that happens, that you do, all year long. This is just a fraction, a moment in time. Tell us about the work that you do across the group and across Team Xbox.
Tara Voelker:
When I'm not being a community lead for the Gaming for Everyone program, I'm also an accessibility project manager. So I partner with organizations all over Xbox from our studios to our marketing teams to make everything we do more accessible and more inclusive. Most recently, I was working on our Game Stack Live event, and that was really exciting. And I got to work on our Age of Empires preview events, which I was super excited about, because I, normally, don't get to work on any of these events. I just have to show up as another fan of stuff. So being able to work on that was really exciting. And, oh, my God-
Larry Hyrb:
Welcome behind the curtain.
Tara Voelker:
It is... You know, I've never been on the event planning side of stuff. It's new and exciting. But also working on other stuff, like helping our party chat, text, speech, get out and really just trying to make everything in the Xbox ecosystem better for people with disabilities. Whether it's making sure that people who, maybe need trigger warnings for mental health get what they need, to making sure games have remapable controls, a little bit of everything. It's a really exciting space, because there's a billion things to do, and I get to work with everyone.
Larry Hyrb:
I want to point out that if they want to find you on social media, I've got it up on the screen right now. How do they find you? I'll let you say verbally for those folks that aren't watching.
Tara Voelker:
Yes. It's a LadieAuPair, L-A-D-I-E-A-U-P-A-I-R0.
Larry Hyrb:
Excellent. Now-
Tara Voelker:
That only makes sense, if you're a fan of Venture Bros from a billion years ago.
Larry Hyrb:
We'll make sure that I... I'll tag you on social media when I put this out there so they can follow you as well. Tara Voelker, Gaming and Disability co-lead here at Xbox, got a great blog post up on Xbox Wire about Mental Health Awareness Month, which is May, which is happening right now. And Accessibility Awareness day, which is later on. Tara, thanks so much for all the work that you do and your time today. And I'm sure people will be hitting you up if they have any questions. Thank you.
Tara Voelker:
No thanks. Thanks for having me and spreading the message both about mental health awareness and accessibility. It really does mean a lot.
Larry Hyrb:
Out now is Subnautica: Below Zero, and joining me is David Kalina, who is the project lead on the game. David, thanks for joining us.
David Kalina:
Thanks so much for having me.
Larry Hyrb:
Really excited to talk to you. As I just said a moment ago, it ships, as I post this show, and folks are excited about Subnautica, because it's the follow-up to 2018, which was... I was checking, I was reading up on it, I forgot it actually run won quite a few awards. So congratulations on that. And then of course the follow-up.
David Kalina:
Thank you. That's right.
Larry Hyrb:
Tell us a little bit about the game and what we can expect to in Subnautica: Below Zero.
David Kalina:
Subnautica: Below Zero is what some might call an open world, survival, craft game. It's an adventure that takes place on an alien planet, mostly underwater. So you're exploring this unfamiliar environment, you're trying to survive underneath the surface of the water, and also above, in some cases. Basically, you play as this, as this character, xenobiologist named Robin Ayou, who comes to the planet looking for information about what happened to her sister, who died on a previous mission in this sector.
David Kalina:
So along the way, you explore the worlds, discover new biomes, all kinds of exotic alien creatures, scan things to unlock recipes and to build vehicles and explore deeper and deeper. Along the way, you'll meet an alien intelligence who's locked away in cold storage. His name is Al-An. He ends up downloaded into your brain, and you go on this grand adventure on a Planet 4546B.
Larry Hyrb:
No, it's funny, I played Subnautica, the original one, that came out, as I said, a few years ago, and I'm a scuba diver, so I loved it. And I love being underwater, so this was... When I started playing Below Zero, I don't want to give away any spoilers, but you don't start out underwater, you have to get there, and you get there pretty quickly. But it's a beautiful world you've crafted. Tell us about some of the gameplay improvements from Subnautica to Subnautica: Below Zero.
David Kalina:
Subnautica: Below Zero is built on the Subnautica foundation. So a lot of the core gameplay is very similar, familiar to fans of the franchise. But in terms of improvements, we're really just trying to polish up the game in a number of different ways. Make it more accessible, a little bit more user-friendly, so that that's everything from like, you can pin recipes now, so you don't have to write down every recipe on a little piece of paper, and keep switching back and forth. There are new tools like the mineral detector that allow you to hone in on the location of ingredients that you need in the world. We have all new vehicles underwater.
David Kalina:
We have this modular submarine called the Seatruck, where you unlock various Seatruck modules, and then connect them sort of Lego-like in forming this larger submarine, to your own design. There's a bunch of new base components for you to customize your bases and make them pretty and livable. So across the board, we've tried to touch every little aspect of Subnautica and bring it up a notch.
Larry Hyrb:
When you look at the game, and I've been playing it for quite a few hours now, it's behind me here. Would you classify this as an RPG? Or how would you kind of paint the picture those folks that are maybe new to the Subnautica franchise?
David Kalina:
I wouldn't say it's an RPG, in the sense of, you're not developing a character or trying to level up-
Larry Hyrb:
Sure.
David Kalina:
... it's not stat based. You do play a character. The main systems are survival-based-
Larry Hyrb:
Sure.
David Kalina:
... so you have a hunger meter and a thirst meter, and you're trying to make sure they don't go to zero, since the game is predominantly underwater, actually, one of the primary bits of tension comes from just trying to not run out of oxygen. So you have an oxygen tank, it only has so much... Yeah, it's so fundamental, I like look over it, but it's like, you have so much oxygen, so you can go only so deep. And along the way you'll unlock tanks with greater capacity and vehicles that help you go deeper. So you're always kind of pushing further out into this open world, increasing your range.
Larry Hyrb:
Yeah. I mean, that's the interesting part of the mechanic that I noticed is that you're absolutely... Again, I said, as a diver, that's the one thing that you have to know when you're in the water is how much oxygen I have left in the tank. And that's the interesting part about this? Is that the way you allow the player to explore the broader region, is the discovering of these vehicles that allow you the range. So you kind of have to get comfortable and learn some of the basics, quite close to your base, and then you can kind of spread your arms out a little bit.
Larry Hyrb:
Now, as you go through, I mean, there's a normal story here, so there's a lot going on here. But it's such a varied world, have you been watching, when you're doing your play testing, how people approach unlocking the world?
David Kalina:
Yeah, we do try to keep an eye on it. I mean, it's an open world, and we try to very much not be prescriptive. I mean, we'll give you hints about places of interest, like we'll put signals on your PDA, but there's no missions or objectives that are really explicitly defined. So it's up to players to figure out where they want to go in the world next. The game starts in a particular location, and your drop pod, which is your initial starter base, comes down from the sky and lands somewhere in a starting area. And from there it's really open. And yeah, we do actually keep track of where players are going, and yeah, it tends to be a number of different directions depending on, yeah, personal interest.
Larry Hyrb:
One thing I noticed, at the top of the game, you have to make a very specific choice about how you're going to play that game mode. And can you explain the different modes that are available for folks, when they decide to jump in here?
David Kalina:
Sure. Same as the original Subnautica, there's a basic survival mode where everything's turned on. It's the story mode with all the survival systems enabled. There's a freedom mode, which, basically, just disables hunger and thirst. So kind of facilitates play, makes it so you're not always looking for your next meal or for water. There's a creative mode, which is totally open-ended no cost, the story is disabled, but you can, basically, just go anywhere. You can't drown. You just experience the world, make of it what you want. And then there's a hardcore mode, which is basically, one life, and if you die, the save game gets terminated. So-
Larry Hyrb:
I noticed that it felt-
David Kalina:
... if you're looking for a little extra tension.
Larry Hyrb:
Yeah. If you want to notch ratchet it up a little bit. Would you say that this game has a little bit more emphasis on storytelling than the first one? Because that kind of felt as I was going through-
David Kalina:
Yeah.
Larry Hyrb:
... this one, again, and I haven't finished it yet, in full disclosure.
David Kalina:
Yeah. That's actually one of the key ways we differentiated from the first game. The first game had what I like to call a dead storyline, everything is kind of happening in the background.
Larry Hyrb:
Sure.
David Kalina:
It's there for you to discover, but your character doesn't have a speaking voice. You're kind of like an anonymous, every person. Whereas in Below Zero, we decided like, okay, we want to try putting the story front and center, and driving the action a little bit with a living story. So there's only a couple of NPCs who are actually in the world who you meet and talk to, and the alien I alluded to earlier-
Larry Hyrb:
Sure.
David Kalina:
... is present for a lot of the adventure. But, yeah, there's also a much more substantial backstory about the Alterra research operation that your sister was a part of, and all of that story is embedded in the world. So you'll find PDA logs that you can pick up and hear little snippets of conversation between the various scientists who were working in the space. And so you, as a player, can reconstruct the story by going through the world and collecting these things and trying to figure it out.
Larry Hyrb:
You talked a little bit about some of the quality of life in-game elements that you worked on, like pinning some of the recipes and so forth. Tell us a little bit about some of the favorite elements of the original Subnautica that you brought forward or maybe refined a little bit.
David Kalina:
That's interesting. Yeah. What did we maintain? I mean, the basic tech tree unlock exploration loop is very similar. I'm not sure how to answer that question. In many cases, the team would decide like, "Well, we don't want to do exactly the same thing-
Larry Hyrb:
Sure.
David Kalina:
... so we're going to change up somethings." One of my favorite things in the original is the Seamoth, which was the zippy little one person submarine. And a lot of people were really attached to the Cyclops, which is the massive submarine you got more towards the late game. And we sort of replaced both of them with this more modular Seatruck vehicle. So, yeah, in a lot of cases, we were just kind of looking to take that original formula and spin it in a slightly new way.
David Kalina:
So even stuff like progression, like the ingredients you use to unlock recipes along the way, changes a little bit, just to kind of keep things fresh, and also more contextually appropriate.
Larry Hyrb:
Right, right. Yeah. I mean, that's what people love is, I mean, there was so much love around the original one. So it's great to see that you guys looked at it and you didn't do a complete overall. It just evolved it, which is always great to see in the next version of the game.
Larry Hyrb:
The one thing I want to point out, we talked about the top of the interview is that this is now available as of May 14th, depending upon when you're listening to the show, and you're on pretty much every platform, right? You guys are on Windows, Mac, Switch, PlayStation 4 and 5, Xbox One and Xbox Series Xs, that's a lot of platforms to ship right off the bat.
David Kalina:
Yeah. It was pretty hairy the last few months for some members of the team trying to ship everywhere all at once. Didn't didn't know that it was possible for our little group, but we had a lot of help from external... we had some third-party developers we worked with, our friends at Shiny Shoe, Unity. Got a lot of help from various QA teams. Yeah, a lot of people pulled really hard to get everything lined up. It was pretty exciting.
Larry Hyrb:
Let's say, it's a global effort, right?
David Kalina:
Yeah. Big time. And our team is globals. I think at our peak, we had eight times zones represented-
Larry Hyrb:
Wow.
David Kalina:
... across our team. For much of development. I was living in Melbourne, Australia, and we had people in Taiwan and Siberia, France, throughout the US. So yeah, it's kind of a fun, diverse team in that way.
Larry Hyrb:
That help you... I mean, I assume that you obviously were doing this throughout the pandemic, as it continues here, what kind of challenges did you run into with the pandemic? Or were you guys uniquely suited to kind of handle this remote working style?
David Kalina:
Yeah. We had been doing remote work from prior to the pandemic, so that's sort of in the DNA of the company anyway. So very little change for us, which is strange, because so much change for some people in this world, over the last year and a half. But for us, yeah, it was kind of business as usual. The one thing is that we would sometimes get together in person, and it's actually really important to us to get to know each other as people, and not always be heads down on the work.
Larry Hyrb:
Or just a digital image on a screen, right?
David Kalina:
Yeah. This does start to feel a little dehumanizing after a while. So, yeah, it's important to actually get together in person. Hopefully, we'll be able to do that again soon.
Larry Hyrb:
Well, I want to congratulate you and the team. Subnautica: Below Zero now available, we talked about all the different platforms, all the console's it's available on last gen and this gen, of course, it's on Mac and it's on Windows. Subnautica: Below Zero David Kalina, you are the project lead. Congratulations on shipping the game and thanks for your time today.
David Kalina:
Thank you so much.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Larry. I'm so glad that you handled that interview, because you know my feelings on diving at open water. Is there ever a game that has been made more for you than Subnautica?
Larry Hyrb:
I loved.... Kahlief, do you scuba dive? Have you been underwater? You've been under water, right?
Kahlief Adams:
I am definitely afraid of the ocean.
Larry Hyrb:
Okay.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Thank you. Thank you.
Larry Hyrb:
Nevermind.
Jeff Rubenstein:
It's not for me.
Larry Hyrb:
Nevermind.
Kahlief Adams:
But I have played some VR games take you underwater, and do that part, and those are amazing. But the ocean is-
Larry Hyrb:
Do they still give you anxiety?
Kahlief Adams:
... scary.
Larry Hyrb:
Did they still give you anxiety when you got the VR and your underwater?
Kahlief Adams:
A little bit. A little bit.
Larry Hyrb:
Okay.
Kahlief Adams:
And it really depends on which kind of HMD you're using. But I think, to a certain extent, it's like, you still get that kind of claustrophobic feeling.
Larry Hyrb:
Head mounted display for those of you kids aren't hip.
Kahlief Adams:
Yeah. Yeah. This just me bringing in work stuff into the thing. But it's like those kinds of feelings of being confined and not knowing how to get out of the space, that absolutely translates in all these games. So it definitely feels that way, so it's scary.
Larry Hyrb:
See, now it's interesting, because you say, confined to get out of the space, where it's like, when you're underwater, for me, it's peaceful, and you're able to float. So I'm able to control my X and Y and Z axis effortlessly, and so on and so forth. So I don't know, it's my happy place. One of my happy places.
Kahlief Adams:
Yeah.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Or even like falling off the boat in Sea of Thieves, that gives me anxiety. And then you see this drone footage off the coast of Southern California that came out a couple of weeks ago, and it's like, oh no, the great whites are way closer than you think. And it was just a bunch... I guess they're just not as aggressive as Hollywood would have you believe.
Larry Hyrb:
Wouldn't you rather-
Jeff Rubenstein:
But it's like, no, no, right there.
Larry Hyrb:
... be underwater, where you could see them as opposed to like swimming on the top. I mean, at least when I'm underwater-
Jeff Rubenstein:
I'd rather be on the beach, in a chair, under an umbrella with a cold beer, and saying, "Man, what the hell are they doing out there?" That's where I would rather be. And talking to the lifeguard, saying, "I think I saw fin out there. You should call him back in."
Larry Hyrb:
Well, if Roy Scheider has taught me anything, it's you take your tank and you shove it into the shark's mouth.
Jeff Rubenstein:
And then, you shoot it.
Larry Hyrb:
Right.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Then you shoot it. This has been all about my fears this episode. I feel like I've [crosstalk 00:52:11]-
Larry Hyrb:
By the way, I do recreate my-
Kahlief Adams:
It has.
Larry Hyrb:
... Roy Scheider every time I'm in Sea of Thieves, and I'm shooting sharks, "You son of..." Anyway, it's a lot of fun. Anyway, Jeff, we've got some news-
Jeff Rubenstein:
And then you blow up the ship.
Larry Hyrb:
... coming up here, and we got to get Kahlief going, because he's got to work on his own show, not just play around with us all morning.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Of course.
Larry Hyrb:
Why don't you give us-
Jeff Rubenstein:
So the mystery, Larry-
Larry Hyrb:
Yes.
Jeff Rubenstein:
The mystery of your background, go full screen Larry. I'm directing the director here, go full screen. You.
Larry Hyrb:
Oh, [crosstalk 00:52:38], let's see, if I can do this.
Jeff Rubenstein:
You didn't know I was going to ask that. There we go.
Kahlief Adams:
Look at that.
Jeff Rubenstein:
So that background, people have been asking for... People noticed that, you've had it up for a couple of weeks. and that is part, that's something that you too will be able to get, because we are now celebrating the 20th anniversary of Xbox. Can you believe it's been 20 years, Larry?
Larry Hyrb:
20-
Jeff Rubenstein:
2001.
Larry Hyrb:
Well, I can, because I've been here for... I wrote the blog post, and have been here for 17 of those 20, so yes, I can believe it.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, well, there you go. So there's a lot of information over on Xbox Wire, and on majornelson.com about the 20th anniversary, and what that means. Just in the sort of like immediate phase, what we want to sort of let you know is that there's Xbox gear, so if you go to gear.xbox.com, there's some really cool... I expect that I'll be wearing that next week or the week after. There's a Fanfest, we would love for you to register for, to participate in 20th anniversary Fanfest activities, there's sweepstakes and stuff like that.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Now here's the customization stuff. So there's a new 20-year gamer pic that is out there, which I will be updating my Twitter account too very soon. And of course, my gamer pic as well. I've been here for a third of that time. I feel like-
Larry Hyrb:
You have.
Jeff Rubenstein:
I'm looking forward to doing that. But then, there is, we're going to be doing some streams on twitch.tv/xbox, but then, it's the background that is, you're going to be able to start finding this on your Xbox. There was actually some new ones added very recently, so you should take a look.
Larry Hyrb:
By the way, also, there's an OG, it doesn't have as much motion, in fact, I don't think it has any motion for Xbox One as well. So it's not just X-Box Series X and S, so go check out your console. And that'll be rolling out over the next time, so if you don't have it, don't go to the internet or call support, just chillax. You'll get an update, and it'll be there.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah. Go to your custom profile, or customize profile menu in your Xbox backgrounds, it's called, The Original, and you'll be able to find that. So happy... I want to see Usher say, "Happy birthday, Xbox, like-
Larry Hyrb:
The Happy Easter one.
Jeff Rubenstein:
"Happy Easter Xbox," yes. Exactly.
Kahlief Adams:
I love it.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Other news this week. So we had a big update begin to roll out, our May update, a number of things in there. Quick resume, as you referenced earlier, Larry, getting better, quicker, more reliable. It is an absolute lifesaver and getting better than ever. There's a new feature, it had been much requested is rolling out, and I want you to tell me about it, because I don't fully know what it is, and that is passthrough audio. Can you explain that to us?
Larry Hyrb:
Yeah. Pass through audio is for those hardcore audio nerds, of which I am barely one, it takes some of the audio from like your Netflix app or your Disney+ app, and the console doesn't do anything with it, it just passes it right through and out the HDMI, so your TV or your receiver can do the best thing it can do with it. So the console steps back and just says, "I'm not going to process this. I don't know what this is. I'm just going to send it out there." So it's audio passthrough, and this will enable, in some cases, a higher quality audio experience, depending upon what your home configuration is. So that's really what it is.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Well, audio files, you can rejoice. I don't know [crosstalk 00:55:56]-
Larry Hyrb:
Yeah, AVS forums guys, I know you're all over this one, and girls.
Jeff Rubenstein:
And when it comes to updates, if you want to try these things out early, I highly recommended during the Xbox Insider program, we're, of course, members-
Larry Hyrb:
Oh, you forgot one, Jeff. You forgot one.
Jeff Rubenstein:
What? What? I forgot one.
Larry Hyrb:
That's the nifty little quick resume at the top here.
Kahlief Adams:
Yeah.
Larry Hyrb:
So we now have the-
Jeff Rubenstein:
Oh, yes. That's right.
Larry Hyrb:
So you can actually just quickly go back into things and it will quick resume. I hope.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah. People were asking for just a little more granular control over what resumes quickly and to be able to see that. There's a number of-
Larry Hyrb:
And to see what's in the quick resume state. Yeah.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Exactly. And you could close it out if you choose to do so, but just check out Xbox Wire. There's updates to the mobile apps and there's also some conversation on what's coming next, so definitely worth checking that out. Couple of other, just small updates I wanted to call out. Dreamworks has added How to Train Your Dragon DLC to Minecraft. I know my kid was very into that series of movies, I feel like there's at least three of them now. And so, you can-
Larry Hyrb:
So it's how to chain your dragons.
Jeff Rubenstein:
... take off the... There's a whole world there, How to Train Your Dragons, exactly. Destiny 2 has a really big update called Season of the Splicer, that is live now. I don't know if you remember, and it depends, people of a certain age may have played, the Super Nintendo or Genesis back in the day, Zombies Ate My Neighbors-
Kahlief Adams:
Yes.
Jeff Rubenstein:
... a version of that is coming to Xbox, along with Ghoul Patrol, which first came out in like the mid '90s. And then the last thing I wanted to call out, this is a game that keeps coming up, because people love it. One of the best shooter campaigns of all time, Titanfall 2 is on sale for $2.99, and it has that FPS-
Kahlief Adams:
It's so good.
Jeff Rubenstein:
... boost. So if you've got the suitable TV, as Larry does, and I don't know, if you're rocking 120 Hertz, Kahlief, but this game-
Kahlief Adams:
Oh, yeah.
Jeff Rubenstein:
... is capable of supporting it. I'm still back here in 60 Hertz land, and it still looks beautiful, [crosstalk 00:58:00]-
Larry Hyrb:
60 Hertz and fluorescent lights.
Jeff Rubenstein:
... 120. It's almost like, this is progression, I all the way on the left. I'm the before picture, and then as your life gets better, you move on closer to Kahlief.
Kahlief Adams:
I bought a TV-
Jeff Rubenstein:
You have the fridge.
Kahlief Adams:
... for my Xbox Series X. I got a new TV, because I knew it was going to push 120. We got to get you hooked up, Jeff. We got to get [crosstalk 00:58:24]-
Jeff Rubenstein:
I'll get there.
Kahlief Adams:
... some of that Yakuza influencer money-
Jeff Rubenstein:
I'll get there.
Kahlief Adams:
... and then get you to get that could be the thing that gets you the new TV.
Jeff Rubenstein:
I think I have to win fist fights and then I find yen on the floor, and if I get enough of that, then I can use that to buy a TV. So I can get my [crosstalk 00:58:40]-
Larry Hyrb:
What was the name of that shop Jeff? Remember when we got... Kahlief, have you ever been to Japan?
Kahlief Adams:
No. I'm dying to go to Japan. [crosstalk 00:58:48]-
Larry Hyrb:
Remember there was all those electronic shops that-
Jeff Rubenstein:
Are you talking about... Oh, Yodobashi Camera.
Larry Hyrb:
Yeah. Yodobashi, that's what I'm talking-
Jeff Rubenstein:
The one where people always rent-
Larry Hyrb:
Yes. That's it.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Go there and it's like every electronic you could possibly imagine. It's like, I didn't know there was this fridges in the world.
Larry Hyrb:
And by the way, and some, you couldn't even imagine, right?
Jeff Rubenstein:
Also true. Just tremendously... I'm trying to even just think. When you go to like Best Buy, they've got a lot of TVs and they've got refrigerator, they bought a number of appliances. Just imagine, if they had like five times more of each type of thing, and to the smallest sizes possible.
Larry Hyrb:
And all in vertical, remember that they were always... everything kind of went up one, two, three, four, five floors.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah, like eight floors. Yeah. Yes. Don Quijote, which is like a strange, a store that just has like a lot of bizarre stuff. I can't even think of an equivalent. Maybe if like Party City met Grocery Outlet. I don't even know. That would be Don Quijote, and they actually put those in the game and you can actually like walk through it. They replicate them very... It's really cool. It's really cool. I miss Japan so much.
Kahlief Adams:
That's fantastic.
Jeff Rubenstein:
So you have to go when you get the chance.
Larry Hyrb:
Yodobashi-
Kahlief Adams:
I'm dying.
Larry Hyrb:
I just love that place. It was just heaven, right? They had so much, and it's funny, Kahlief, you know how when you go into Best Buy, and you're like, "Hey, I need X, Y, or Z," and they have one or two of these things.
Kahlief Adams:
Yeah.
Larry Hyrb:
Yodobashi would have like 12 different versions of something, and you're like, "I don't even know what's going on."
Jeff Rubenstein:
There's a lot of stuff. You look at it like, "I don't even know what that does, but it looks cool.
Larry Hyrb:
That was the place that-
Jeff Rubenstein:
And I can't afford it."
Larry Hyrb:
... if I remember correctly, Jeff, I don't know if you're aware of this Kahlief, but Jeff and I are big fans of Japanese electronic toilets, the Washlets, and that's the first-
Kahlief Adams:
Yes.
Larry Hyrb:
I believe it's the first place I bought mine was in Yodobashi in Japan.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Did you?
Larry Hyrb:
Yeah.
Kahlief Adams:
I love it.
Jeff Rubenstein:
You're ahead of the curve.
Kahlief Adams:
That's awesome.
Larry Hyrb:
That's the way to do it. Anyway, sorry, I didn't mean to get sidetracked there. You got some more news for us, right, Jeff?
Jeff Rubenstein:
No, no. I think, let's call it there 2.99, Get your Titanfall. Titanfall 2, I should say.
Larry Hyrb:
$2.99-
Kahlief Adams:
You got to play that.
Larry Hyrb:
Yeah. That's-
Jeff Rubenstein:
That's a good game.
Larry Hyrb:
... campaign is fantastic. That-
Jeff Rubenstein:
With the newest addition to Apex, she is right out of Titanfall lore. It all takes place in the same universe, and I was reading, there was like a huge spike in the amount of people playing Titanfall 2 afterwards, because the new character, Valkyrie who's voiced, I believe, by Erica Ishii-
Larry Hyrb:
Yeah.
Kahlief Adams:
Yeah.
Jeff Rubenstein:
... is a really cool character, by the way. Maybe OP, we'll see if they nerf her, because her ability to fly around is-
Larry Hyrb:
I think was reading-
Kahlief Adams:
[crosstalk 01:01:21] much.
Jeff Rubenstein:
... so much fun.
Larry Hyrb:
... on Twitter, someone from Respawn already tweeted they were going to, maybe I misread this or misremembered or dreamt it.
Jeff Rubenstein:
Yes. I mean-
Kahlief Adams:
They definitely got to tweak Valkyrie a little bit.
Jeff Rubenstein:
... she's so mobile, she can go over it.
Larry Hyrb:
Yeah, so.
Kahlief Adams:
Yeah.
Jeff Rubenstein:
But until then, enjoy it.
Larry Hyrb:
Anyway, well, we should probably wrap up here, because I know we've got to go to meetings. Kahlief you've got to get... Oh, Kahlief, tell us again where folks can find you, so that they can enjoy more of what you offer.
Kahlief Adams:
Well, first, again, thank you so much for having me. Again, this is a blast. Please, I would love to come back and rock with you all again, because this was so much fun. You can check out Spawn on Me on any podcast platform. We're also on Twitch. We do our live show, Wednesday evenings around 6:00 PM PST-
Larry Hyrb:
Great.
Kahlief Adams:
... at twitch.tv/spawnonme. I do a bunch of other shows. I've hosted a whole bunch of things. I was hosting DICE earlier this year, hosted GamesBeat Summit as well. So doing more hosting as well in the space for the industry. And yeah, again, come through and come hang out with all of us in Brookago, our lovely faux place that we have our show, because we love to have fantastic conversations that are full of good, nuanced thoughts, which is a thing that we hope to see more of on the internet. So, again, thank you all for having me, and we hope to all see you soon, where we all rocking here on Spawn on Me.
Larry Hyrb:
Well, Kahlief, as our very first guest cohost, we could not have chosen a better one. So on behalf of everybody at Xbox, I want to thank you for joining us, and thank you for all your support, recently, and I know you're going to do a lot more in the future. That's why you've got that refrigerator in the background there. That is a refrigerator. But yeah, really appreciate you coming on. We're big fans over here and you can definitely come back on anytime you want. I'm looking forward to seeing what you think of... We're only a month away from E3, just going to say.
Kahlief Adams:
I know. I'm saying, we have lots of stuff to talk about. I'm sure [crosstalk 01:03:10]-
Larry Hyrb:
And I remember you and I, off the air, were talking about, that was one of the first times we met. You and I were chatting, coming out of an old Microsoft briefing, you had attended, right?
Kahlief Adams:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were coming out of the briefing and I was like, "Larry, wait a second. Let me see if we can snag you for some thoughts." And you were kind enough to jump on with a really quick interview with us. And again, thank you for that. Because again, the thing I love about what you all are doing here is that you're constantly connecting to all of us in the community, and pulling up podcasters, pulling up streamers, and pulling up content creators to work alongside you all, to kind of share the-
Larry Hyrb:
Thank you.
Kahlief Adams:
... good things that are happening at Xbox land. So it means a lot to me as a person in this space to be able to do that. And it's really great, because our community loves when we do the shows like that, so it has been fantastic.
Larry Hyrb:
Well, I got to... Thank you very much. Thank you for the kind words. And I have to tell you, Phil Spencer, and I know you've talked to Phil before, he always talks about gamers at the center, and Jeff and I, and a lot of people at Xbox are gamers, but at the end of the day, to your point, there's a huge community, and we want to bring you all in here. And the best way is having conversations like this, and all the great work you do and get you on the shows and just chatting with you, because we just want to make great games and make sure people are having fun wherever they are.
Kahlief Adams:
Yeah. Yeah. And you're doing a fantastic job.
Larry Hyrb:
Thank you.
Kahlief Adams:
I'm going to sign up for the Fanfest myself, see if I can get in there and see what's going on, because I'm curious and excited to see what's going to be happening, [crosstalk 01:04:33]-
Larry Hyrb:
Any final words before we go, Jeff. I'll let Kahlief have the last word. What are-
Jeff Rubenstein:
I'd just say, make sure it makes sure you just sub to Spawn on Me, a really excellent conversation. This is junk food, this show. We just talk about crap. The five course meal of sophistication, that you're going to find on Spawn on Me.
Larry Hyrb:
Right over there.
Jeff Rubenstein:
And you have a great, I would say, niche within the gaming community and holding conversations that need to be held. And so thank you for that.
Larry Hyrb:
All right. Well, we're going to let everybody go. Kahlief, any final words before I let you get back to your show?
Kahlief Adams:
Yeah, don't eat Paris' food. It's terrible, don't do it. Make sure you don't do that, because you'll lose gamer score if you do.
Larry Hyrb:
Okay.
Kahlief Adams:
And also-
Larry Hyrb:
That's been medically proven by the way. That's been medically proven.
Kahlief Adams:
Oh, Absolutely. At least seven out of 10 doctors have said this on online somewhere. So, again, thank you all for having me. And again, check out our show. We try to do something very special and different in the industry, and we hope that you all will come along with us for the ride. So thanks again.
Larry Hyrb:
All right, we'll get you on again soon. Thanks again, Kahlief. Jeff, we'll see you next week. Bye-bye everybody.
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