756: Madden NFL 22, I Am Dead, Unturned

Larry Hryb:
Hi, it's Larry Hryb, Xbox's Major Nelson. Welcome to the Official Xbox Podcast. We're back this week. No Jack, but instead we traded the Jack for a Jeff.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I don't go to theme parks. I'm sorry.

Larry Hryb:
You do.

Jeff Rubenstein:
It's not my theme.

Larry Hryb:
You do go to theme parks.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I don't willingly go to theme park. I very much enjoyed listening to the show last week. Jack is awesome, super nice guy. Obviously knows his Disneyland from his DisneySea.

Larry Hryb:
Have you ever been to DisneySea?

Jeff Rubenstein:
You mentioned this, but I have been on the train going from Tokyo Central to ...

Larry Hryb:
There it is. There it is.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Not only do you pass DisneySea, but you pass a Costco. I want to know what's in Tokyo Costco or Chiba.

Larry Hryb:
I believe it's a double-decker Costco, too, remember because it's massive right there in Chiba.

Jeff Rubenstein:
That's my Disneyland, Larry. Give me samples. Give me a Chicken Bake. I wonder if they have Chicken Bakes.

Larry Hryb:
I'm sure there's a nice Japanese take on the Chicken Bake.

Jeff Rubenstein:
149 hotdog and a soda.

Larry Hryb:
Anyway, welcome back. You were out last week. Actually, the past couple weeks you were out, right?

Jeff Rubenstein:
Two weeks, yeah. The show didn't fall apart. Ratings are up probably, but it's good to be back.

Larry Hryb:
And Rebecca is, as you can see, was off last week. And everybody's taking these two weeks. I don't know when I'm going to ... I may take the week after next off. We'll figure that up, but we're all back together, at least Jeff and I are. So, that's the most important.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Can we do a show without you? The answer is probably no.

Larry Hryb:
Well, you're welcome to. You're welcome to do the show without me. I just don't know if you've got all the gear.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I don't know how to hit the buttons.

Larry Hryb:
I've got a quite complicated setup here that I've ... Thank you by the way for Jeff for coming on the journey with me as we solve our audio issues, our video issues, the look of the show, the whole nine yards.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Look at this. We've got this beautiful, I don't know, scenic background.

Larry Hryb:
But you know what this is, right?

Jeff Rubenstein:
If we were to go back a year-and-a-half ago, we were like stick figures talking through hands on screen.

Larry Hryb:
Grunting with fire.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Banging rocks together.

Larry Hryb:
This is actually one of the backgrounds that's available on Xbox Series X and S. It's the motion one. Look, I'm trying to make it thematic. But anyway, let's talk about what we're going, what we're playing. We got some great interviews this week.

Larry Hryb:
I did a couple. Jeff did one. We're going to talk about that. Tell me what you've been up to. Tell me what you've been playing, Jeff. Actually, wait a minute. That appears to be a new set you're in.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Well, I moved houses.

Larry Hryb:
That's right.

Jeff Rubenstein:
And still, this is very temporary. I'm like, "Let me just throw a TV in background to cover up all the mess," because there's much of it. But eventually, we'll get in the right progress. I only have one light on because I can't find the plug DU, but, anyway, it will get there.

Larry Hryb:
We're going to get there.

Jeff Rubenstein:
We're hotwired. You can help me network because the WiFi is bad.

Larry Hryb:
I am coming over to your house this weekend. And I am going to have my little tool belt on. And I'll be in your ...

Jeff Rubenstein:
I don't want to see any crack when you bend over, Larry. Wear a proper tight pant.

Larry Hryb:
There may or may not be. I don't know. Here, I see the problem, Jeff.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah. I see the problem, too, buddy. So, I've been on vacation but every time I go on vacation, unpack this little thing. It's out of the shot, there you go. You see the Series S. It's plugged in, I shouldn't have grabbed it.

Jeff Rubenstein:
But it's so easy to put the Series S in your backpack and take it with you. We're staying at Airbnb in Bend, Oregon, home of the Blockbuster.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah.

Jeff Rubenstein:
And we roll into there. And they had a room with a computer monitor and I was like, "Don't mind if I do?" And what did I do? I downloaded the Back 4 Blood beta.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah. I played that as well. I played that as well.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah. Did you?

Larry Hryb:
Yeah.

Jeff Rubenstein:
How did we not play together?

Larry Hryb:
I saw your Instagram. You were off hiking and visiting the last Blockbuster like you said and some other stuff. So, it's just, our timing wasn't working out but you're back.

Jeff Rubenstein:
That's fine. Yeah. Well, I got to play right before I went on vacation with some media folks, a couple of gentlemen from Destructoid and then Mike from Xbox Wire.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I got to tell you, probably the most fun I've had in a multiplayer game, all gear, was that couple of hours we were playing through Act 1 of Back 4 Blood. Just teamwork, we all sort of fell into a good groove. There are some great set pieces in what we played. I'm sure some of you out there have played, but like trying to board up the church or get off the ship. And I got knocked off into the water and died.

Jeff Rubenstein:
We just barely made it through. And that was a sign of a good co-op experience so I can't wait to play Back 4 Blood. Of course, coming to Xbox Game Pass for console and for PC this fall. And I know I'm going to be playing just a ton of that. So then, when I got out to Oregon, we ended up playing through it again because hey, why not?

Jeff Rubenstein:
Other than that, still playing Octopath Traveler. I'm starting to get worried, Larry. Too many games are coming out. There was no slow summer this year.

Larry Hryb:
No, no.

Jeff Rubenstein:
There was maybe a couple of weeks there where there wasn't anything big. And I was like, "Well, let me take on this 80-plus-hour RPG Octopath Traveler ...

Larry Hryb:
You love your RPGs.

Jeff Rubenstein:
... on Xbox Game Pass. I do. And this one is really good. But I'm only like, I don't know, 15-20 hours in. And games are starting to come out.

Larry Hryb:
And on the horizon, you see the autumn and fall, and all the game's going to come marching towards us.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah, I mean, we're in it now. Hades is out today.

Larry Hryb:
Yup.

Jeff Rubenstein:
And then, 12 Minutes is out next week. And there's some other stuff we'll be talking about. And Madden and this couple of ...

Larry Hryb:
You were going to be interviewing someone from the Madden team who I've known for a long time actually. And that is, usually, back in the day, that was the unofficial start of the holiday season was when Madden came out, and then they would start.

Larry Hryb:
But now, it's like, to your point there, everything's coming out all the time.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah. That's just the sign of ... it's like when you're on the freeway and the speed limit goes from 45 to 65. And you're like, "Oh, I'm going to step on the gas." The games industry does that. Once you have Madden, great, you're just going to see a bunch of stuff coming out through the rest of the year. Obviously, we know we're getting ready very soon for Psychonauts 2.

Jeff Rubenstein:
And we'll be playing at Far Cry. And we'll be playing ...

Larry Hryb:
Halo.

Jeff Rubenstein:
... Forza Horizon. We'll be playing Halo Infinite, of course. I mean, there's other stuff where I didn't get to but, man, it's going to be a very good holiday.

Larry Hryb:
It sure is. And so, I've been playing. I'm playing Death Store. I'm still playing Death Store.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Good. Have you beat the witch yet?

Larry Hryb:
No.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Okay. I think that's about the one-third point in the game. The good thing about that game, I would say, is it's challenging but it's fair.

Larry Hryb:
I'm actually one of the pot-headed bosses before then, so I'm having a little difficulty. I just keep going away and coming back.

Jeff Rubenstein:
It's not, right? It is not an easy game.

Larry Hryb:
No, it's unforgiving. So, Death Store, what else am I playing? Back 4 Blood, Katamari.

Jeff Rubenstein:
We don't see your TV. You got the wrong angle. We're just seeing this beautiful background you got there.

Larry Hryb:
Well, that's because I got some stuff over here I can't show. But Katamari, I love Katamari. It's such a goofy game.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Takahashi, doesn't he have a new game? I feel like Takahashi has a new game, but maybe I'm wrong.

Larry Hryb:
Katamari, I love the theme song to Katamari, of course. And then, I finished the third chapter in a Pirate's Life for a Sea Of Thieves.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Good. Yeah, that's a meaty update.

Larry Hryb:
And in that particular third chapter, if you haven't played that, I don't remember which one that one is called, but it's really ... it is the most-like the Pirates of the Caribbean attraction in terms of being on it that I've ever felt. I need to go back and play it again. I just had such a good time.

Jeff Rubenstein:
You very quickly surpassed me. I need to get in there and pick up. I'm still, I think, it was at the end of the first act.

Larry Hryb:
Really? We're all happy to dive back ...

Jeff Rubenstein:
I haven't been back yet.

Larry Hryb:
... because I played each of the chapters. I think there's five total. Like I said, I'm on the third. I played each one twice because I play it first for the first time and then I go back and try it 100%. So, each, I've got 100%, 100%, 100%. So, I'm cooking along there. And I'd love to help you 100%, Jeffrey.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I would love to do that. Now, that I'm here. I've got my setup. I got my house. You'll help me with the WiFis.

Larry Hryb:
The internets.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Taking me up on it.

Larry Hryb:
Wow, I'm happy at least that someone can use my skills. I'm happy to do it.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I don't know what a mesh network is, but I imagine you put a whole net around the whole house.

Larry Hryb:
That's right.

Jeff Rubenstein:
And that keeps the internet in because right now, it's leaking out the windows.

Larry Hryb:
I don't know where it's going. It's going down the street to your hipster coffee shop.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah. I mean, there's a Viking bar down at the corner so they're sucking up all my internet, I guess.

Larry Hryb:
It's so good to have you back. Rebecca will be back, I think she'll be back next week. Like I said, she's on annual leave, I believe, is what we call it.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I mean, we do now.

Larry Hryb:
I don't what it's called.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Every year, sorry, we're on annual leave.

Larry Hryb:
We got a bunch of news coming up. Jessica is going to do that later on. You know what I have here? I'll give you a clue. We're going to go into the interviews now, but I will just tell you something, Jeffrey.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Go on. What? Are you going to be unboxing something?

Larry Hryb:
I have something here. It's something that's already been announced. So I have finally got a hard copy, a real-life version of the Aqua Shift controller.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I haven't seen that in person yet.

Larry Hryb:
Yup. So, I was able to get one of the very first ones from our marketing team off the production line. So, I've got two gloves ready to do. So, we'll do that after the break, but why don't you tell us what we have for interviews because we've got some pretty good stuff this week.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Actually, yeah, let's talk about that. I know that I'll be interviewing the senior producer of the Madden NFL Series. And we're going to be talking about some new stuff coming there and what they're doing with next-gen because this is the first proper at-launch next-gen mapping game. But you're speaking with some folks who are updating their titles as well.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah. We're going to talk about I Am Dead which is a brand new title, Wilmot's Warehouse. I know you talked to Rebecca about it from the creators of Wilmot's Warehouse. And then, Unturned, Unturned is amazing because this gentleman, his name is Nelson, he's Citizen Nelson vs. Major Nelson. See how I did that, Jeffrey.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I see. The show is big enough for two Nelsons.

Larry Hryb:
He's going to talk about his journey into creating ... he started in Roblox. And he's going to talk about his journey into creating his own game. So, let's listen to the real Nelson on how he does that.

Larry Hryb:
Unturned available on Xbox, probably almost a year now, is getting an enhancement for Xbox Series X and S. And I'm very excited today to be joined by Nelson Sexton who's the man, the myth, the legend, the single soul developer behind this title.

Larry Hryb:
Nelson, good to see you.

Nelson Sexton:
Hey, good to see you, too. It's nice to meet you.

Larry Hryb:
It's great to have you on. I mean, I've been watching your career grow. You've had quite the career over the past decade or so. Can you give us a little bit about your career? And then I'd like to talk about the game itself because it's amazing. It's an amazing story.

Nelson Sexton:
Thank you. So, I first started working on this project back on Roblox. That would be back in around 2012-2013. And then, I took into an Unity project. And I've been working on that for the last eight or so years. We launched on Steam in 2014. And as you mentioned, we launched on Xbox last November, I think.

Nelson Sexton:
And so, it's been a big journey. We did early access for a few years. We came out of early access in 2017. And you say I'm the guy behind it, I did a lot of the original stuff. Now, we've got a big team of committee members who are helping with the game. We've got 505 who are doing the console versions. And so, I'm very lucky to have a lot of people helping out now.

Larry Hryb:
But I think the most important thing here is the fact that you are a single individual who started on Roblox, came up with this idea. And we'll talk about the game Unturned in just a minute. And then, you basically said, "This is so good. I want to make this into a standalone game." And that's what you did. It's a free to play survival game.

Larry Hryb:
So, that's amazing. How did you make that jump from, "Okay, I'm in this Roblox where I'm given tools," versus, "Now, I have to go make my tools."

Nelson Sexton:
Thank you. Let's see. So, I think the jump was that I wanted to take the game further. I think Roblox has grown a lot and they have a ton of incredible features that I wish I'd had back then. But at the time, it was like the ways that I wanted to push the game forward were things that I couldn't really do in Roblox at the time.

Nelson Sexton:
And so, it was a bit of a challenge moving over from Roblox to Unity. And for example, Roblox, of course, hosts all the servers for you. And so, going from they're managing all the technical details to then, "Oh, my gosh, this is so much more complicated than I thought. I feel bad for complaining about Roblox." Because, of course, what I built especially back then was not as good as Roblox, at least on the server or the network end of things.

Nelson Sexton:
But that's improved a bit over time. And I would definitely still recommend anyone who's interested in getting started with game development, give Roblox a try.

Larry Hryb:
Because it certainly worked for you. Now, tell us a little bit about Unturned. And I've got some video here. And so, we're just going to play that, but tell us what the game is about and what the core as we say in the industry, what the core gameplay loop is like.

Nelson Sexton:
Sure. So, Unturned is, I mean, it sounds cliché, it's a survival sandbox-based building type game. The gameplay loop is you start out with nothing, you scavenge for supplies, or depending on the map, you will either craft your way towards the endgame or you will work your way through the progression of the map.

Nelson Sexton:
And then since it's typically a multiplayer PvP game, you are building your base and raiding other player's bases, and competing with them for the limited resources.

Larry Hryb:
And, apparently, killing zombies as well.

Nelson Sexton:
Yes. I guess I neglected to mention that in the list of clichés. It's good a lot of different types of zombies. And so, they're the main PvE threat in the world.

Nelson Sexton:
There are also a lot of quests. And depending on the map, there's the new map that's coming out in September, it has probably the most extensive quests of any of the maps.

Nelson Sexton:
I don't know how good a summary that was.

Larry Hryb:
It was pretty good. We talked about it. You're doing some enhancements for Xbox Series X. And so, tell us a little bit about what those enhancements are.

Nelson Sexton:
Right. So, 505 are updating the game. They're bringing the engine version up. They're bringing some of the new features and progress from the PC version. They are adding the translations as part of the Xbox Series update. And so, that's going to be automatic with, I think, Smart Delivery. The players will get the correct version for their console.

Nelson Sexton:
And so primarily, they're focused on bringing the game further along. It's not going to be so much a graphical update, maybe some performance benefits, but they're also bringing a lot of new fixes. And the development team has changed now. Cradle Games based out of Quebec, they're doing the development now. And so, there should be more frequent updates and patches to the console editions.

Larry Hryb:
How does it feel as a developer, you started out in Roblox and you broke out on your own and created this title, how does it feel that you have other teams working on your baby? That's got to be interesting. It's got to feel very different, doesn't it?

Nelson Sexton:
It's pretty crazy. It's been a big journey. I think it's been really interesting to hear some of their thoughts on what problems they ran into with the game or things that I've learned from them as part of working on it, and trying to preserve the original vision of the game while also trying to be collaborative and understanding that things need to change.

Nelson Sexton:
It's been touched by a lot of different teams at this point. I'm mentioning that it's moved to Cradle Games. Now, it was with another developer in between FUN Labs and Cradle Games. I'm not sure how public that is. But it's had a long history in console version.

Larry Hryb:
Now, one thing I was reading, and correct me if I'm wrong, but when you released the title, you were just 16 years old, right?

Nelson Sexton:
Yeah. When I did the Steam release, I was 16. And so, that was difficult balancing school and full-time game development, I suppose. I was doing a Steam update every Friday so it was rush to get all my homework done and then be ready to release an update on the Friday because, of course, that was during early access.

Nelson Sexton:
And so, I think, yeah, the Steam release, initially, in 2014, I was 16. And then that was already based on a bunch of code I'd written when I was 14 and 15. And then now, of course, I'm still improving the PC version which means there's all this really old code that is a bit of difficult to maintain.

Larry Hryb:
I've worked with a lot of developers over the years, Nelson. I wonder if you have the same kind of thing where you go back to the code you wrote three, four, five, six, seven years ago and you're like, "I can't believe I wrote this. This is terrible."

Nelson Sexton:
Yup, that's very relatable.

Larry Hryb:
I mean, that's amazing that you balance school. And obviously now you graduated school and you're in game development full time. When you look out there ... And you're based up in in Canada, in Calgary, correct?

Nelson Sexton:
Yup, that's right.

Larry Hryb:
When you look out there around the world that people that are doing game development and young kids and young boys and girls that are growing up, what are some of the tips you would give them? Like maybe, "Hey, graduate school first before you go into game development." If you can give a couple of tips since you've been down this road?

Nelson Sexton:
Thanks. I think I would recommend the opposite, do game development as soon as possible. I mean, I was doing game development. I did GameMaker for a few years before I went to Roblox. I did Roblox for three to four years before I went on to Unity.

Nelson Sexton:
And so, I think it's definitely something you can learn online. There's a lot of amazing resources online to go learn that. And I think I do get emails from younger developers interested in getting started. And often, I recommend make as many projects as you can. I mean, some people are interested and the first thing they make, they want it to be the big thing that they release and work on for a while. But in turn, it's definitely not the first game I made. I must have made a few hundred games by this point.

Nelson Sexton:
And so, just keep going and you'll learn a lot. And eventually, you'll find something that sticks.

Larry Hryb:
It's interesting as you do bring that up is that people think that their first game or their first thing is going to be a masterpiece, and it's going to be what they're known for. But that's never the case. I mean, you need to learn and hone your craft.

Larry Hryb:
And you said you built a hundred games or so. And over those course of those hundred games, you learned how to code, how to develop a game, how to do graphics, all the different parts of it, that that was the road, the journey that brought you to Unturned. And without it, you couldn't have made Unturned, right?

Nelson Sexton:
No, definitely not. I think I definitely learned a lot along the way and I still am. I tried to be learning new techniques, new approaches to things on the weekends. Definitely always trying to learn more. There's so much to learn.

Larry Hryb:
Well, I got to tell you. You're a huge inspiration for a lot of people, I'm sure, that are watching and listening to this because a lot of folks want to be game developers and they don't know where to start. And I think what I'm hearing from you is if you don't know where to start, just make your first game, even your first hello world, your first anything.

Larry Hryb:
Make the character walk across the screen or anything just to get the concept of coding down, right?

Nelson Sexton:
Definitely, definitely. Anything you can do to get started is a good step. I don't think there's any bad steps. And regardless of whether you're writing code or you're using something like Visual Scripting Blueprints in Unreal or you're doing Scripting Lua in Roblox, there's so many different good ways to start, I think.

Larry Hryb:
Before I'll let you go, I was also reading you have some downloadable content coming up available. Tell me a little bit about that.

Nelson Sexton:
Yeah. So, the plan is 505 licensed one of the big community-made maps for PC. That was a confusing way to word it. One of the big community-created updates on PC was a map called Elver which is probably one of the best maps in the game, which is why I recommend to them that they prioritize that one.

Nelson Sexton:
And so, it is a lot more combat focused. It's got a lot of endgame progression. And so, the way that's going to work is it's going to be a DLC on console. And if you purchase the DLC, I think $5 is the plan, then you can host a server, you can use 505 servers which are free to host on. And then, all your friends can join. They don't have to get the DLC.

Larry Hryb:
And when is that going to be coming out?

Nelson Sexton:
That's going to be coming out some time September.

Larry Hryb:
That's fantastic. Well, I look forward to seeing that. Nelson Sexton, you are the man behind Unturned. You are the originator of Unturned and now, a lot of other folks work on that. I want to thank you for stopping by. Thank you for telling us about the downloadable content, the update is coming to Xbox Series X and S, really exciting.

Larry Hryb:
And again, congratulations on the success you've had and I wish you more success in the future.

Nelson Sexton:
Thanks. And thanks very much.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Now, as you're watching or listening to this podcast, I'm well aware you're probably broiling. Some of the hottest weather in the summer is going across a huge chunk of the country. But I want you to envision three months from now, getting ready to tuck into that turkey. Hopefully, you're watching the Cowboys lose at home, and the blur of Christmas and Thanksgiving and Halloween and the first day of fall and the first day of school.

Jeff Rubenstein:
For me, that whole process to get to that point, it all happens at one moment. And it starts when Madden comes out every year. And guess what? We're getting really close to the launch of Madden NFL 22. And to celebrate this, I'd like to welcome now Mike Mahar, the senior producer of the Madden NFL Franchise.

Jeff Rubenstein:
You're in one of those tropical places. I know Madden is made in the Orlando area. So thanks for joining us from Florida.

Mike Mahar:
Thanks for having me, Jeff. I appreciate it.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I'm thinking about Madden, how is John Madden? He's got to be in his 80s now. Does he still consult on the games or what's John Madden's involvement in Madden here in the year 2021?

Mike Mahar:
Yeah, what a great question. He does. It's incredible. The access that we have and the consultation is still strong with Coach Madden. The team, our senior gameplay designers, they still consult on a regular basis with him. He's still actively involved.

Mike Mahar:
And I think what's even actually more interesting is that his passion for Madden being a tool to attract a new generation, a younger generation of kids into football in the NFL, and teaching the game. His passion for that is undiminished, it hasn't changed a bit over the 20 plus years we've been working with him which, honestly, is incredible. And it speaks volumes about him and his character.

Jeff Rubenstein:
You know what, that just totally fit. So, you can still just imagine him being excited as you're showing him new features and stuff like that.

Mike Mahar:
Oh, my God, yeah.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Right. And you mentioned generations. And if we go back a year ago, you'd be preparing for Madden NFL 21 to be released on the previous generation on Xbox One. And I know that when Xbox Series X and S came out that Madden NFL 21 optimized. But now, you've got a season under your belt.

Jeff Rubenstein:
You don't judge a coach in what they can do if they come in in the middle of the season. You want to see what they can do with the full offseason. And here you are getting ready for the first release that on day one will be on next-gen console, still will be available on Xbox One, of course. But on Xbox Series X and S, I know you're preparing a series of features that are exclusive to this new generation.

Jeff Rubenstein:
So, why don't you talk about just the experience of now working with Xbox Series X and S and what you're able to do? What is unlocked by this new generation and the power there?

Mike Mahar:
Yeah, that's a great question, Jeff. Like how are we maximizing the experience on Xbox next-gen consoles, and there's some obvious ways we're doing that that players can expect to see in Madden 22 which are just the sheer horsepower that the console gives us to present the game, make the graphics and enhance the graphics and the presentation around the field.

Mike Mahar:
But probably, the biggest single differentiator is a feature we're calling Dynamic Gameday. And Dynamic Gameday has three primary components. It has next-gen stats, it's powered by next-gen statistics, which is real-time player data coming directly from the players on the field. They have little RFID chips in their shoulders. And we have that data that comes from them that feeds our animation, our AI, our play calling. And it's a really powerful tool to make the game incredibly realistic and performing like the real teams and players would.

Mike Mahar:
The next one is something we're calling Gameday Momentum. And so, much like we would have in the sport itself, there's an ebb-and-flow and a home-field advantage almost part to the game. And we're allowed to show that off in all of its glory. Each field or each stadium in the game, much like in the real NFL, has unique advantages and disadvantages for the opposing team, that the player can leverage based on how they play on the field, either successfully or unsuccessfully.

Mike Mahar:
And that home-field or gameday advantage translates into momentum. Your team can either, obviously, get the momentum or have the momentum work against you. And it can impact all kinds of things in the game, uniquely, from how easy it is to call a play, run a route, kick a field goal. Here, your quarterback, you'll see or play the quarterback actually touching his helmet. He won't be able to hear.

Mike Mahar:
And the players can harness that capability. And they can leverage those things against their opponent or against the AI when they're playing, either for good or if you're on the other end of that spectrum, you can have that impact and make that ... the game will become more challenging for you to play dynamically.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah. I've been playing Madden for a long time and I remember it's like 2007 or '08, there was a momentum feature or something back that seems significantly more built out than that. And I love how it's customized to the unique elements or things we would see in a particular stadium. I want to know what Lincoln is for Lincoln Financial Field, but I'll find that out here in a couple of weeks right now.

Jeff Rubenstein:
So, I was reading about the game. And as someone who ... I would say I spent actually a lot more time playing single player these days when it comes to sports games. And one of the things that caught my mind was on the franchise, there's the Face of the Franchise or the Franchise Mode, I should say, and upgraded the Franchise Mode. We'll talk about Face of the Franchise in a second.

Jeff Rubenstein:
But I don't hear too often in RPG skill tree system that's involved in like a sports game. But I do feel like sports games playing solo are getting more and more like RPGs. I think it's really interesting. Can you talk about this and your thoughts on how that progression works, and how you grind your way to success, I think, in an RPG style in Madden.

Mike Mahar:
Yeah. Again, that's another great question, I think. And your comment is pretty spot-on. I mean, those of us working on Madden are huge gamers. Always, we're deeply passionate about Madden. But we play a lot of other things that are influenced by the general trends and best-in-class services in the market. And the RPG mechanics that we're putting in place for you to build a character in our game really allow players, in a very flexible manner, to customize the power and the progression of their character on the field.

Mike Mahar:
And, of course, you can play as a quarterback, and as a running back, and as a wide receiver. We've added a defensive character archetype into the game this year which is a first for us in this mode. But the mechanics themselves are, as you described and I think appropriate, are very flexible for the users to be able to earn and play and harness their success on the field to grow out their specific and unique game impact based on how they play.

Mike Mahar:
So really, at the end of the day, depending on the quarterback you want to become, if I can use quarterback for an example, we will allow you through this system to differentiate and lean into how you like to play quarterback by allowing you to invest into that RPG mechanic to build out those types of skills that make you a stronger player based on how you natively like to play anyways.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah. I was just seeing that video and just seeing where you can put the points in there, I just think is really cool. Tom Brady probably is maxed out. He should probably get more squared. It pains me to admit that.

Mike Mahar:
Yeah. There's a special fountain of youth system for Tom Brady.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I'm the same age as Tom Brady. And I am not Tom Brady. So, let's talk about the Face of the Franchise that I brought that up a second ago. And so again, this is like a single player campaign, we've seen different evolutions of this throughout the last four or five years or so. But you all are broadening this out in terms of class system and things like that. You're not locked into one player.

Jeff Rubenstein:
So, can you talk a little bit about United We Rise?

Mike Mahar:
Yeah. So, bringing it back are based on the progression system that you were just talking about. I mean, it all starts there. You get to select a character in one of the four positions, quarterback, running back, wide receiver, defense as well. And then, you get to build that core of that character out as you see fit, first and primarily starting with the thing that matters most to Madden which is your NFL fantasy career experience in Face of the Franchise.

Mike Mahar:
This mode is about you. It's about your character. It's about your rise to NFL superstardom. The choices you make in this mode will dictate the scenarios and the challenges that are presented to you as you go through it. And it really is a reflection of the mode itself, how it plays, how the media reacts to you, how your teammates react to you will all be reflection of the choices you make in the mode, the type of player you are. And it's all based on foundationally that progression system that we talked about earlier.

Mike Mahar:
And the beauty of this system is that it also applies to our other areas of the game as well where your character can be used which is The Yard.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Cross-progression, we love it. Putting in the [crosstalk 00:32:31] in one place, it shows up in another mode. Man, it's respectful of time. And I think that's valuable.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Speaking of that, I'm making my own segues here, so thanks for bearing with me here, Mike. Superstar KO, co-op eliminator mode for quick games, sometimes people don't have time to play a full-four quarters, generally, five or even longer amounts for quarter time. But tell us about Superstar KO and this quicker hit version of a multiplayer game.

Mike Mahar:
Yeah. I mean, Superstar KO was in Madden in '21. And to your point, it's a very pick-up-and-play, almost battle royale ask to play, and continue winning streaks, very easy way, very accessible way for people to play with the content that matters most in the game which is like the NFL teams and the NFL stars.

Mike Mahar:
And in Madden 22, what we're doing is we're adding in all the broader deeper NFL teams and some additional ways to plan that mode, so that users or players who come into Madden have a very easy and pick-up-and-play way where they can compete.

Mike Mahar:
Like I said before, even from a winning streak perspective, they can continue to stay in game in the moment and with their NFL team of choice and get rewarded as they play through as opposed to some of the other modes which require a bit more of an investment, whether you're progressing your character or classic franchise that require a bit more of an investment of your time.

Mike Mahar:
This is a very straightforward way to come in. Get some of those rewards, some of that progression, play with something that's a lighter lift in terms of the play calling and the win objectives, but really steel still feel the power of the NFL players and the NFL content.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Awesome. Mike, thank you so much for joining us from EA Tiburon. And we get to play this next week, don't we?

Mike Mahar:
Yeah. Early access starts, I think, tomorrow. Oh my God, it's almost here and then worldwide launches on the 20th. I mean, we've been talking to our players all along. We're building a game we hope they love. We will continue to support it through live service all year round.

Mike Mahar:
And we're eager and eagerly anticipating getting their feedback and building a stronger and better game for them as we do for our life services. But yeah, I mean, we're super excited about we're out of the game and we can't wait to get in players' hands.

Larry Hryb:
I Am Dead is a charming puzzle adventure game from creators of Hohokum and Wilmot's warehouse, after exploring the afterlife in the Isle of Shelmerston. And ladies and gentlemen, we have Mr. Richard Hogg who's the artist and designer for the game.

Larry Hryb:
Richard, thank you for joining me.

Richard Hogg:
Thank you for having me. Yeah. It's nice to have an opportunity to talk about the game. I'm looking forward to it.

Larry Hryb:
Let's talk about the game is out. It is available now on Xbox. Tell us a little bit about what the title is. And while you do that, I'm going to play some of the video because it's a very, very interesting title that I want to make sure people understand what it's all about.

Richard Hogg:
Okay. So, I Am Dead is a game about a guy who's dead, happens to be dead. But it's a game that deals with death in a way that's probably quite, well hopefully, quite radically different to how you see death a lot in the world of video games. And it's not a spooky or morbid game. And it's not a violent game. It's a game.

Richard Hogg:
Like you said, it's kind of a ... Did you say puzzle? It's kind of a puzzle game, a hidden object game.

Larry Hryb:
Okay.

Richard Hogg:
It's a game where you're effectively a ghost. And it's as you're seeing in this footage here. It has this mechanic where you're able to see inside things. You're able to almost slice away buildings and objects and things, like this toaster here, to see the inner workings of machines and see inside fridges and inside plants even and cupboards.

Richard Hogg:
And you can look every ... Because the character, who the game is about is a ghost. In the afterlife, he has this ability to see inside things. And so, we use that as a sort of unique way of allowing you to explore a world in a video game. And effectively, you're looking for things. And the things you're looking for are the objects that meant something to some other people who are also dead. So, about other ghosts, too, you're trying to connect with and trying to talk to.

Richard Hogg:
And the way you do that is by finding these things. We call them mementos. You're finding objects that had some connection to them in their lives. And as you go through the game finding these things, you hear the story of stories from their life. And so, even though it's about dead people, it's about their lives and how they lived more than about how they died. And in fact, you don't really even find out how anybody died in the game. It's not relevant, their actual death.

Richard Hogg:
Does that all make sense?

Larry Hryb:
It does to me because I played a little bit of the game. But I think people that are listening going, "This is actually interesting." I want to talk about how you came up with the concept of the game, the gameplay loop of this, having objects, being able to, for lack of a better term, peel them back to understand and solve the puzzles. Tell me about that and how you came up with that concept.

Richard Hogg:
It's quite a hard thing to explain to people, like you said like peeling things back or slicing through a thing. Me and Ricky, who I work with, we've collaborated for about 13 years making video games and we spend a lot of time pitching ideas of games to each other.

Richard Hogg:
And I think one day, I just sent him a ... I found an animated GIF on the internet where someone had sent fruit through an MRI scanner. So maybe someone who worked in a hospital on his lunch break put a banana through an MRI.

Larry Hryb:
Put his lunch through the MRI machine.

Richard Hogg:
Yeah. And it looks amazing. It looks amazing. And I think I just sent that to Ricky and just said, "Imagine a video game that looks like this, that works like this." And at the time, it was quite a weird idea to have ... we'd never made a game at that point with any kind of three-dimensional assets. All our games had been flat two-dimensional games.

Richard Hogg:
And we didn't know much about what the sort of technical challenges of making this game would be. But we started investigating it and talking to people and thinking about a bit more on it. And over the course of quite a long time, it was just a thing that we had on the backburner that we were thinking about, and it evolved.

Richard Hogg:
And at some point, we made a prototype and it instantly felt really good. Like instantly just felt nice to be able to look at an object and ... I'm speaking of random thing up from my desk. Look at a thing like a calculator, I think there actually is a calculator, too, in the game. And you can rotate it. You can look at it from all angles.

Richard Hogg:
And then, you have this very kind of analog control of how you slice into it and see inside it. And when you're playing the game, that in itself is quite a pleasing and satisfying way of exploring things. And then sometimes inside the thing, there'll be something of interest or there might even be another thing that then you can focus on and you can drill down into that thing.

Richard Hogg:
And in the game, this goes or bits in the game where this goes all the way from a large building down to a tiny matchbox if you're looking inside things. And so, it's quite an unusual way of interacting with objects in a video game, but it's quite intuitive. And it's quite almost like mesmerizing, really. Some things just have an amazing ... like sometimes as you slice through it, anything that has a regular pattern to it like a radiator or ... yeah.

Larry Hryb:
Like we saw the toaster.

Richard Hogg:
Like the blinds behind you in your room, for instance. It would look amazing if you were to slice through those. You'd almost see a strange pattern happening. And it's quite a beautiful, strange thing. Yeah. And I'm really proud of that aspect of the game.

Larry Hryb:
Now, one of the things that stands out right away when you're playing and certainly the puzzle mechanic, but the other thing is, of course, is the art style which we're seeing here. Tell us about the art stock because it's very relaxing, really, really beautiful sets that you've created.

Richard Hogg:
Yeah, thank you. I'm responsible for the art style. I guess, my root into making games was as an art person. And like I was saying, this is the first game we've ever made using three-dimensional art in an engine.

Larry Hryb:
Sure.

Richard Hogg:
And I have no skills, I do now, but at the time, when we were coming up, starting making this game, I had no skills in that area, whatsoever. But I was quite good at making images that look like they might be. The thing you started with there, the lighthouse, the image of the lighthouse with the island behind it, that is all just drawn in a vector software thing. It's not actually from the game at all. And yet, it almost looks identical to how things look in the game.

Richard Hogg:
And so, I started figuring out an art style which was something that allowed me to art direct a game that had three-dimensional things in them, but where I could design them and make concept art that then people could work from to make meshes, and involved a bit of trial and error. But I kind of had some ideas and I was inspired by a few other things I'd seen. And it just happened organically really.

Richard Hogg:
It became quite a result of rich collaboration between me and the people, me and a couple of artists who I worked with who were like 3D artists on the game. And we came to an understanding where they knew what I wanted everything to feel like in the game. After the initial ... I'm probably getting, too, into the technicalities here.

Richard Hogg:
After initially establishing the art style by making things that looked very, very close to a screenshot of the game, I could relax a bit. And I could just do pencil sketches and things. And we'd sort of established what the rules were. I love that side of my job. I love thinking what are the rules of how things look both in terms of [crosstalk 00:43:26] ...

Larry Hryb:
Well, because it's your world and you can define what the rules are in the framework, right?

Richard Hogg:
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And it's nice to have rules. In a way, it's quite nice to have sort of limitations. Before I worked in games, I come from a graphic design background or illustration background. And I'm used to having those really basic limitations. You're making a poster that's going to be a screen print. You're only allowed to use four colors.

Richard Hogg:
And that's a real foundation of how I work. I think that's a big part of what makes the art style of the stuff I make distinctive, I think.

Larry Hryb:
One of the things is you're an artist and I'm an audio guy, and the music and soundtrack sounds lovely. The voice actor in there as well, it's really quite good. And the main character's voice in I Am Dead is just so strong and it draws you in with the narration and so forth. So that's another thing.

Larry Hryb:
Again, you can't show that in a screenshot. You certainly can't. But that's another thing that really immerses you even deeper.

Richard Hogg:
Yeah, I'll be honest, it's a bit of development I wasn't very involved with. Ricky who I collaborated with took on that side of things more than I did. And I listened to audition tapes and I had opinions but I didn't really feel like I had much to offer in terms of voice acting. Ricky loves it and he loves being in the room or on a call like this with somebody and feeding them the lines and talking to them about it.

Larry Hryb:
And then hearing the lines and whatnot.

Richard Hogg:
Yeah. And honing that performance whereas, I don't have that much to offer in that thing. But the actual writing itself, I was very involved with, so the actual kind of what [crosstalk 00:45:20] are.

Larry Hryb:
The words.

Richard Hogg:
Yeah. We went to the writer called Catherine Johnson who actually lives in the town that I live in. And I met her through just happening to be a neighbor really. But she's a very experienced writer, has written lots of novels and lots of TV stuff as well.

Richard Hogg:
And to start with, I was writing the stories and she was just giving me some sort of hit tips, almost giving me like creative writing advice.

Larry Hryb:
She was guiding you.

Richard Hogg:
She was guiding me, but she ended up actually taking a lot of it on and actually getting very involved and actually coming up with a lot of the ideas. And she'd never worked on a game before in her life.

Larry Hryb:
It's interesting to say that because when you take somebody who's worked in linear media like books or television like you said, having them working in a three-dimensional nonlinear media can be ... it's a learning curve for them, isn't it?

Richard Hogg:
Yeah, it is. The way that the stories tell themselves in our game is quite linear. It's not like she didn't have to write branching narrative, different things going to happen based on the player's actions. It doesn't really pan out like that in our game. It's a bit more straightforward. So, she didn't have that challenge.

Richard Hogg:
But even so, she's someone who doesn't really play games and doesn't really ... it was all a bit new to her. And I think sometimes I would be showing her things and telling her things and be quite mind-boggling for her really. But yeah, it was really nice collaboration. And she's actually in the game. She's the only real human being who is actually a character in the game as well. She's got very small part in it.

Larry Hryb:
Lovely touch. Admittedly, I'm at the beginning of the game in the first quest, but you learn within the first few minutes how the game got its title. Now, based on the title in this early discovery, clearly the subject of death, big focus. How did you approach creating a game about something that sometimes people don't want to talk about death, right?

Richard Hogg:
Yeah. It's interesting. We were working on another game, another idea for a game that was also about death. It was a very different game of different mechanic, but we had this idea that we wanted it to be a game where someone had died. And you learn about their life through the possessions that they left behind. And so, it was a thing that was knocking around with us for a long time.

Richard Hogg:
And I think it's a subject that people ... People are very comfortable with death if it's presented in quite a dramatic, unrealistic way. But less comfortable with things that depict death in a more realistic like how death actually ... how it fits into our real lives kind of way. And I think we both were quite interested in the idea of making a video game that spoke to that.

Richard Hogg:
I've known people who've died. And I think about people who are no longer alive in my life a lot. And I wanted to not shy away from that and make something that was kind of about that. But totally not in a morbid way, in almost in a way that almost sometimes feels like, I'd go as far as saying, celebratory. I don't know. I think we pulled it off. I think it works in this game.

Larry Hryb:
Well, it also because the environment you've created, most people think death is scary and dark. But in your artistic rendition, it's colorful, it's light, it's this beautiful area that people are exploring. And then, of course, hopefully real death is not full of puzzles.

Richard Hogg:
Yeah, absolutely.

Larry Hryb:
The puzzles tell the story. And that's what's really interesting in terms of finding the objects in the scene. And there's a lot of cues like when you're close, the controller will shake and things like that. So it's hard to say this, I mean not hard to say, but it's like people don't understand when I say, "Well, it's a cute, whimsical game about death," right?

Richard Hogg:
Yeah, I guess it kind of is. Yeah. We talked a lot today, yeah, there are things already and exists that are like that. While we were making this game, we talked about the film Beetlejuice a lot because that's a game, that's a film. It's not a game, I meant film.

Larry Hryb:
Well, there was a game, if I recall correctly, but yes.

Richard Hogg:
Was there? Really? Because that's a game that deals with the idea of people being dead, and it being slightly more prosaic thing in their lives. Or like the film Blithe Spirit is a good example for me of that.

Richard Hogg:
What's that recent ... There's a recent [inaudible 00:50:28] where his wife's died and he's coming to terms with his wife having died. That I think is really lovely deals ... it's like a black comedy, really, but it deals in a really honest way with the subjects. Yeah, I guess it was just a thing that we were drawn to.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah. I also want to point out you've got a pretty small team that worked on this. You guys were able to be pretty agile during your development process.

Richard Hogg:
Yeah. I think the way we work is that we ... there's a core collaboration which is me and Ricky, and then we work with other people who were mostly freelancers. And people tend to come and go. But I think the top was maybe 10, maybe 12 people max worked on this game at any one time.

Richard Hogg:
And most people were in it for the majority of development. We had people popping in and out constantly. Yeah, the team sort of grew and then it went down again.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah, it ebbs and flows during the production cycle.

Richard Hogg:
Yeah. And we've worked like that with a lot of different people over the years on various games. And I think it suits us and it suits them. And I like the word you used, agile. I like the idea of trying to keep the team as small as you can. And making the thing the size that it needs to be besides as a piece of art wants to be, rather than the size it needs to be to support whatever studio structure you have.

Larry Hryb:
It's a very fine balance to find that right sweet spot in between the two, right?

Richard Hogg:
Yeah. The game we made before I Am Dead, Wilmot's Warehouse was a much smaller game when it was ... that was for nearly all of development, just me and Ricky and then another programmer joined us towards the end. But it was never any more than ... we had a musician as well, so technically four people and never any bigger than that.

Larry Hryb:
That's impressive.

Richard Hogg:
I couldn't imagine going much more than a dozen people. I don't know, but I don't think the sorts of things I want to make will ever need more than that.

Larry Hryb:
And you talked about Wilmot's Warehouse. You also did another one called Hohokum. Tell us a little bit about those two games.

Richard Hogg:
Yeah. So, the first game that me and Ricky made together was called Hohokum which, unfortunately, is a PlayStation-exclusive game.

Larry Hryb:
That's fine.

Richard Hogg:
Yeah. It's kind of the thing that we started to make. I was working in a design company and he was working as a programmer for a company that made very early mobile games like pre-smartphone mobile games.

Larry Hryb:
Like the little snake on your Nokia?

Richard Hogg:
Yeah, like Nokia Java games. And we started just making this game in our spare time. And what is Hohokum? It's quite ... All the games we make are really hard to explain to people. Hohokum is like a very ambient game where you're a thing that looks a bit like a snake or a kite. And it's very relaxing. It's not difficult ever, has no obvious quests or objectives a lot of the time.

Larry Hryb:
It's just relaxing.

Richard Hogg:
Yeah. But there's lots to discover and lots of interactions and lots of things to do in it. But it's very ambient, kind of chill game. Very colorful and it has an amazing soundtrack. All artists here under record label called Ghostly International.

Richard Hogg:
Then Wilmot's Warehouse is very different thing. It's a game about working in a warehouse, about organizing things.

Larry Hryb:
It's a warehouse simulator.

Richard Hogg:
I guess so. Yeah. It is just a warehouse simulator. It's very stylized simple representation of that. And again, it's quite colorful and quite cheerful but it's very much more video-gamey in the sense that you can fail.

Larry Hryb:
Has a fail state.

Richard Hogg:
Yeah, there's a fail ... which is quite unusual for me. Most of the ideas I have for games aren't like that. The Wilmot's Warehouse, yeah, it's very much a reflection of me, that game, and my experience of jobs working in warehouses.

Larry Hryb:
I used to work in a warehouse as well so I know exactly what you're talking about after I played Wilmot's Warehouse. I know what that's like.

Richard Hogg:
Yeah. Did you enjoy working in a warehouse?

Larry Hryb:
I did not.

Richard Hogg:
Really? Sorry.

Larry Hryb:
No. It was one when I was a young ... when I was early in in my college years. I'll just say this, I worked with a very colorful cast of characters. I should make a video game about that gang. I'll tell you that.

Richard Hogg:
Yeah, sounds good. Yeah. I had one warehouse job that I absolutely loved.

Larry Hryb:
Really?

Richard Hogg:
My boss was cool. And everyone there was nice. And I just loved the challenge of becoming very intimately familiar with this quite complicated space where there's hundreds of different items. I had to know where they all were. And I had to be efficient going around it, putting things away, taking things out.

Richard Hogg:
I also worked in a library for a bit and that was similar.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah. Well, it's a warehouse of books.

Richard Hogg:
It is. Yeah. It was actually ... The library I worked in was of film stills. So, it wasn't books, it was mostly packets of photographs.

Larry Hryb:
Right.

Richard Hogg:
But yeah, similar thing in it, just the pleasure of becoming one with this amazingly complex environment that's full of information or full of stuff.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah. Fascinating. Well, I'm really looking forward that folks check out I Am Dead. It's out last week so it's available now. It's available on Xbox One and Xbox Series X and S.

Larry Hryb:
I got to tell you, Richard, congratulations on shipping the game. I know that every time you ship a game, that's a huge milestone. So, I need to congratulate you. Exactly. Exactly. So, congratulations to you and your team. And thanks for joining me today.

Richard Hogg:
It's been a pleasure. It's been really nice talking to you. Thank you very much for asking me to do this.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I Am Dead, it's now available. Let me tell you, the game did not look what you thought a game called I Am Dead is going to look like. It's sort of in the realm of spirit fair in terms of ... it deals with death but then it looks very cheerful.

Larry Hryb:
And the lights [inaudible 00:57:53] away. We're going to slice things open.

Jeff Rubenstein:
It does look really interesting, actually. All right, you got the gloves on. And either it's time for my annual exam or you've got a new controller.

Larry Hryb:
Or a new piece. Yeah. So, while you get the news, I know you're going to be showing us the news a little bit, we announced this controller last week which is the Aqua Shift Controller. And I wanted to show that off because one of the interesting things about this controller for Xbox Series X and S is it's really quite [inaudible 00:58:21]. Let me put the box over there.

Jeff Rubenstein:
There are some new features, aren't they?

Larry Hryb:
Yeah, look at that. It's got a really nice sheen. If you look behind it ...

Jeff Rubenstein:
That's the shift you're talking about.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah. You can see it's this nice little ... it's got the rubberized grips under there. It's got the textured ... things are textured there as well. But this is just a really, really nice, nice controller. I mean, it looks stunning.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Can you turn it to the side just like a profile view for the camera?

Larry Hryb:
Sure, I can, Jeff.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Okay. So, the grip goes all the way up there to the side. Is that like a pliable where that wavy look is?

Larry Hryb:
Yeah.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Is that like [crosstalk 00:59:03]?

Larry Hryb:
Yeah, everything that's got that wavy look is rubberized.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I like that. I like that.

Larry Hryb:
I'm going to plug this thing in and I'm going to use this as one of my primary controllers. I just love this color. I just love the color.

Jeff Rubenstein:
If it's focused, it's like in the middle, it's like more blue. But look towards the edges, it looks like it gets a little purple.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah.

Jeff Rubenstein:
That must be that shift. Yeah, Aquashift.

Larry Hryb:
Jeff, that's why they call it the Aquashift. So, there we go.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I'm not marketing.

Larry Hryb:
I got to put the batteries in here while you talk about our news because I'm looking at the center and I want to see something.

Jeff Rubenstein:
What do you want to do? You want to see how the Nexus lights up?

Larry Hryb:
Yeah, exactly. It looks like it's got a little blue action going in there.

Jeff Rubenstein:
No, that can't be the case.

Larry Hryb:
I can't believe marketing would let us do that. So, let's go ahead and put that in there.

Jeff Rubenstein:
But I'm in. You're on the air so make sure you get it the right way. Don't put the head at the tail.

Larry Hryb:
The positives in the negatives and the negatives in the positive. Let's turn it on here.

Jeff Rubenstein:
It's like defusing a bomb but in reverse. Okay. It's flashing.

Larry Hryb:
It's kind of got a blue ...

Jeff Rubenstein:
It is normal. I can't tell.

Larry Hryb:
Let me sync it to my Series S over here. Let's see if it will do it.

Jeff Rubenstein:
You have to push the button.

Larry Hryb:
I did. Here it goes. I'll just turn it off. Yeah. It's got a really nice blue there. And I'm a little stunned at how actually how cool it is. So, let's see. There it goes.

Jeff Rubenstein:
All right, yeah.

Larry Hryb:
Now, it's flashing. I see because it's [inaudible 01:00:39]. Anyway, so that's the brand new controller that we've got out. It's coming out soon. You can check out my blog at majornelson.com and details on news.xbox.com for all of your news poured out.

Jeff Rubenstein:
It's at the end of the month I want to say is when we'll be seeing that one.

Larry Hryb:
I really like that.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Will you bring that one by when you come over to fix my internet and just put it down on the kitchen table, and don't worry about it. It's safe there.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah, I'm really taken aback by this one, Jeff. And I don't know why. I mean, it's just that I like the color.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah. I mean, it's handsome.

Larry Hryb:
Here you go. Are you ready? Here's your thumbnail, Jeff. I need your reaction face.

Jeff Rubenstein:
That's all I have.

Larry Hryb:
Anyway, how many other YouTube channels do thumbnails right live on the air? None of them. None of them.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Most of them, I think, probably. Okay, maybe.

Larry Hryb:
Anyway, what do we got for news, Jeff? We got a pretty big week going on.

Jeff Rubenstein:
A newsy week. So, as you can see behind me, we announced the Gamescom 2021 Xbox Stream pleased to announce that it is going to be hosted by our good friends, Parris Lilly and Kate Yeager.

Larry Hryb:
I'm so excited to have Parris back. He joined us back in June for the showcase. And I've known Kate forever. Kate and I used to do a bunch of different shows together. So it's great to see them back in the ...

Jeff Rubenstein:
And Kate is the host of Apex Legends Regional Tournament so we can see her all the time there. Parris from Gamertag Radio and, of course, from the Kinda Funny Xcast and we're going to see him.

Larry Hryb:
You know what? What do you say we see if we can get him on in the coming weeks?

Jeff Rubenstein:
I would love to have him on air. And I think he would enjoy being on the show.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah, I'd love to have ... Let's work on that. So, thank you for telling us about the ... I'll bring it up so you can see it. There you go. What else you got?

Jeff Rubenstein:
Sure. Yeah. So that Stream is going to be taking place on August 24th, 10:00 a.m. Pacific. That is 1:00 p.m. on the Eastern Time and 6:00 p.m. in England, 7:00 p.m. in German time. So, everyone will be able to watch and enjoy.

Jeff Rubenstein:
And I will be reading here from Xbox while you'll get in-depth updates from some of our previously announced Xbox Game Studios titles alongside some of our third-party partners, including some incredible titles coming to Xbox this holiday, upcoming releases to Xbox Game Pass and much, much more.

Jeff Rubenstein:
So, of course, you want to watch now. And I'm looking forward. It's just a few weeks away.

Larry Hryb:
It sure is.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Something we just had this week which was a really good watch on Twitch was the Twitch Gaming ID@Xbox Showcase. So we had some good friends of the show, Strawburry17 and Steve Saylor, the Blind Gamer. Really introducing a large number of indie games that are coming to ID@Xbox. Good amount of those are coming out on Xbox Game Pass as well.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Some of these are out now like Sam & Max Saves the World Remastered, it was like an incident drop right after release. Games like Aragami 2, Evil Genius 2, library of Ruina, Paparazzi ...

Larry Hryb:
Paparazzi.

Jeff Rubenstein:
... and Stardew Valley are coming to Xbox Game Pass. I mean, Stardew Valley is an old-timer. A game that really jumped out at me as being really ... I really want to play is OlliOlli World. It's a skateboarding action platform. And there were a couple different OlliOlli games. I think there were two of them previously.

Jeff Rubenstein:
This looks completely different, though in this wide open, beautiful-looking world with heavy customization. You can create your border to look like whatever. Got very into watching skateboarding during the Olympics and this is obviously very different from a game like skate or more of a core skating game that seems like more of a platforming action game. But that will be coming out this winter.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I definitely recommend you at least, at the minimum, skim through on Xbox Wire. But you can, of course, go to twitch.tv/twitch gaming where they do a great show called the Weekly Every Week. But you can watch the archive on that, and a lot of great trailers, a lot of really interesting things.

Jeff Rubenstein:
RPG Time, that was another one that jumped out at me. Looks like a pencil is being drawn on paper and it's drawn ... the game as you play and just awesome. So, the indie devs are just the ones you push moving forward.

Larry Hryb:
This is why my controller wasn't working. I had to update the firmware.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Here we go. You got update.

Larry Hryb:
So, it's updating.

Jeff Rubenstein:
You're applying the update. There we go. Real-time update here.

Larry Hryb:
Yup.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I want to talk about a game that also caught my eye this week which is coming to Xbox Game Pass next week. And that is Humankind. So this is coming in Xbox Game Pass for PC. It's made by SEGA and Amplitude Studios. It's what they call a 4X game. And sort of the platonic ideal of a 4X game is ...

Larry Hryb:
Explained 4X for those of the people that don't know.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I don't know what it stands for, but it's a game like civilization where you take over the world. You can do it peacefully. You win against other nations. Sometimes it's a military conquest, and see if you could be the first to make it to Alpha Centauri, I want to say.

Jeff Rubenstein:
You could have a cultural victory or financial victory. There's ways of ...

Larry Hryb:
Can have an emotional victory, Jeffrey.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah, maybe they have that in this. Whoever is the happiest nation.

Larry Hryb:
That's right.

Jeff Rubenstein:
You win this time, Denmark or Canada, I don't know. But anyway, it looks really interesting. And there's a lot of different historical cultures from the ancient times to the modern times. Anyway, really looked interesting. And well, it's coming out to Xbox Game Pass for PC and Ultimate on PC. And definitely, I want to be checking that out. I want to say it's August 17th which is next week.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I want to talk about a couple of things that our social good team is doing, or our Social Impact team. One is honoring indigenous peoples for International Day of the World's Indigenous Peoples. And in doing so, talking about some of the ways that Xbox is saluting or honoring indigenous peoples during this time.

Jeff Rubenstein:
So, one is in Minecraft Education Edition where there is a content to check out there. World's Edge who makes the Age of Empires games, the Age of Empires III is focusing on authentic indigenous representation. Indigenous communities in Mexico are being celebrated with some design controllers.

Jeff Rubenstein:
All the information there, I don't do it justice. But Jenn Panattoni, she does do it justice and she wrote about it.

Larry Hryb:
We need to get Jenn on the show. I had her on a few months ago. She runs some really cool programs, doesn't she?

Jeff Rubenstein:
She does. She's a great member of the team, someone we work with on a lot of stuff, like whenever we do Stream Takeovers in celebration of things like Hispanic Heritage Month which is coming up in the middle of September. She's always who we partner with.

Jeff Rubenstein:
She's also working on how Xbox is partnering for the Special Olympics with [crosstalk 01:07:49] ...

Larry Hryb:
Yeah. Talk about this, please.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah. So that's going to be coming up also in the middle of September, September 12th through the 14th. And how do you get involved? You watch. It's going to be broadcasted on Twitch.

Jeff Rubenstein:
And we're going to be bringing together athletes during the Special Olympics to compete in Rocket League and the Madden NFL 22, Forza Motorsport 7. And some folks will be even playing along athletes and stars like Jayson Tatum who plays for the Celtics or Jamaal Charles, and some WWE superstars. So, some really cool stuff happening there, it starts off on Sunday, September 12 on the Xbox Twitch channel and on the Special Olympics YouTube channel.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I'm sure we'll be talking more about that as we get closer to that story, by the way.

Larry Hryb:
Of course, we will.

Jeff Rubenstein:
But really cool and we should definitely see how we, you and I, Larry, can get involved.

Larry Hryb:
I love doing things like that. So, we should totally find a way to do it.

Jeff Rubenstein:
More stuff for those of us who are Xbox Game Pass subscribers. [inaudible 01:08:49] ...

Larry Hryb:
No, it's just the way you said that "more stuff," that's what Chuck Barris used to say in the Gong Show, "We'll be back with more stuff."

Jeff Rubenstein:
More stuff, like people want stuff.

Larry Hryb:
I know.

Jeff Rubenstein:
And if you've got Game Pass, man, all of the stuff. And this stuff is from Codemasters. As we know, Codemasters folks have made DiRT 5, Grid Series. They're part of EA now. And therefore, their titles are now part of EA Play. And EA Play, the Vault is part of Xbox Game Pass Ultimate. It's in its chain.

Jeff Rubenstein:
So that means a games like F1 2019 and '20, wait, DiRT 5 is ... okay, DiRT 4. These games, DiRT Rally, DiRT Rally 2.0, Grid, they're all coming to EA Play. So, in fact, they're there now so that's cool.

Larry Hryb:
Hey, achievement unlocked.

Jeff Rubenstein:
There it is. There it is. Why don't we use that more often?

Larry Hryb:
I don't want to burn it out. I've got that. And, of course, I have ...

Jeff Rubenstein:
That's the rare one.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah.

Jeff Rubenstein:
So we can give that rare achievement too to the folks at Ninja Theory who optimized Hellblade this week. Hellblade Senua's Sacrifice for Xbox Series X and S. And it's got some great video over an Xbox One. Of course, you can just go ahead and download it and update as part of Xbox Game Pass.

Jeff Rubenstein:
But some really cool ... They show how it looks at 30, 60, 120 frames per second. And I just think that's ...

Larry Hryb:
I am very much looking forward.

Jeff Rubenstein:
It's already a good-looking game.

Larry Hryb:
I'm very much looking forward to check it out on 120 frames a second on my TV behind me. Very excited.

Jeff Rubenstein:
That's available now. So, you could even end the show early and try that now if you wanted to. But if you want to finish the show, you can just download that.

Larry Hryb:
Or I could download it while we're kibitzing here.

Jeff Rubenstein:
See. Now, you're thinking. Now, you're thinking. The Age of Empires Series, so, obviously, we know Age IV coming out later in the fall. But it doesn't mean Age II and Age III, so we talked about Age III in Indigenous Peoples Representation. Age II has some new content, that is the Dawn of the Dukes which is part of Age II, the Definitive Editions through new campaigns, anyway, available now on Microsoft Store and on Steam where I know a lot of folks are playing Age II. It's an old-timer, Larry.

Jeff Rubenstein:
So, get out there and enjoy the Dawn of the Dukes.

Larry Hryb:
Get it out.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Another update I thought was really interesting. Game Pass feeling like a broken record here, but like the best kind of broken, is MLB The Show 21, they added something really cool. So, let's see on the ball. You want it, Larry?

Larry Hryb:
Yes.

Jeff Rubenstein:
If you build it, they will come. What was that mean to you?

Larry Hryb:
What am I supposed to do? I'm sorry. I'm trying to download.

Jeff Rubenstein:
If you build it, they will come. Where is that from?

Larry Hryb:
That's from Field of Dreams.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Field of Dreams.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah.

Jeff Rubenstein:
And Field of Dreams, they put the Iowa cornfield baseball.

Larry Hryb:
No, they did not.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yes, in MLB The Show, like you're really going to hit the homerun through the corn. So, it's actually a free update which is available now for MLB The show 21 which, of course, is part of Xbox Game Pass, on Xbox One and Xbox Series X and S.

Jeff Rubenstein:
And, yeah, you can play on the cornfields of Iowa.

Larry Hryb:
Sorry. You can install.

Jeff Rubenstein:
You can also install Hellblade. You could do that, too. I think I'm not sure about is if they step over the foul line, did they become old? I don't know if that happens.

Larry Hryb:
Now, that would be an interesting.

Jeff Rubenstein:
That would be a feature. Maybe that will come out down the line, but it just looks really cool.

Larry Hryb:
If you want terrible features for game ideas, this is the place to turn.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I'm the guy. I'm the guy. Your player becomes 80, but they do save that kid from choking.

Larry Hryb:
What? What?

Jeff Rubenstein:
I mean, what? You don't have a movie from 1989 like Top of Mind in your head?

Larry Hryb:
Is it that far?

Jeff Rubenstein:
Anyway.

Larry Hryb:
Oh, my goodness. It's a long time ago.

Jeff Rubenstein:
All right, real quickly. Also something to call out, there's been a real rise in ... I'm calling mundane yet satisfying actions being turned into a game. I know some people on Steam were playing like this, pressure wash game. There's a game called Lawn Mowing Simulator that is now available ...

Larry Hryb:
I saw that.

Jeff Rubenstein:
... for Xbox Series X and S. And look, you get to mow like some of the best lawns in the world. And while that might sound unusual, it seems to me very satisfying. There's [crosstalk 01:13:23] ...

Larry Hryb:
Jeffrey, what are the best lawns in the world, man? Are we mowing outfields at baseball fields? Are we mowing pitches?

Jeff Rubenstein:
I think that would be cool. I'm looking at footage of lawn in a castle.

Larry Hryb:
Did you mow lawns growing up when you're a little kid?

Jeff Rubenstein:
No, because I grew up in the city and we didn't really have lawns.

Larry Hryb:
Okay.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I've shoveled snow. Actually, what we would really do is with snow, we would very quickly shovel the snow. And then we'd knock on someone's door, go, "We shuffled your path for us, so."

Larry Hryb:
You shook them down?

Jeff Rubenstein:
We don't call it a shakedown.

Larry Hryb:
It's exactly what I would call it.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I was too young to be shaking people down. It was just proactive.

Larry Hryb:
Extortion?

Jeff Rubenstein:
It's proactive. We didn't put the snow back. I don't think we put the snow back. I don't know if they didn't pay.

Larry Hryb:
The reason I asked is because you talked about Lawn Mowing Simulator. I remember when I was mowing the lawn, we had a big backyard and I used to do it. It's always about cutting them in the different ... the diagonals and the straight, making the design.

Larry Hryb:
So, I wonder if you could do that Lawn Mowing ...

Jeff Rubenstein:
It sounds like Lawn Mowing Stimulator. It is for you and I expect a report next week that you have played it.

Larry Hryb:
Budding game developers out there, I need you to make a snow shakedown game for Jeff.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Snow Shovel Simulator.

Larry Hryb:
Snow Shovel Shakedown game.

Jeff Rubenstein:
You have different shovels. Maybe you save up, you get like a snow-blower or something like that.

Larry Hryb:
Or maybe, just maybe Mr. Plow.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I mean, think of the tie-ins here. You could do a whole big launch at Universal's The Simpsons' World. We've pretty much taken care of their marketing plan for them for this non-existing game.

Larry Hryb:
Boy, anything else?

Jeff Rubenstein:
Anyway, last thing. Just want to talk about ... it's the game we've been talking about for a long time and it's out next week, 12 Minutes. So, you can pre-download it now on Xbox One and Series X and S. It would be available it looks like 9:00 a.m. on the 19th of August.

Larry Hryb:
Awesome.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Before we talk to you next, I think, you'll be able to play this game.

Larry Hryb:
We'll be playing that.

Jeff Rubenstein:
There are some great celebrities in the game, James McAvoy, Daisy Ridley, Willem Defoe.

Larry Hryb:
I need to get Daisy Ridley on the show.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Wasn't Daisy Ridley in ... She was in Star Wars. I was thinking ... I don't know what I was thinking, but she was great.

Larry Hryb:
How did you not know that she was in Star Wars?

Jeff Rubenstein:
I was mixing up Daisy Ridley with the person who was in ... the actor who was in Pirates of the Caribbean.

Larry Hryb:
Keira Knightley?

Jeff Rubenstein:
Keira Knightley. Daisy Ridley could be Keira Knightley's younger sister.

Larry Hryb:
Okay. All right.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I feel like that's the case. I've never seen them both ...

Larry Hryb:
In case you want to straighten Jeff out, just hit him up with his social handle right there. He can't miss it.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Anyway, that's for the news, Larry. That's a lot for the middle of August.

Larry Hryb:
Just reminder, Hellblade, Senua's Sacrifice optimized as we go ....

Jeff Rubenstein:
Downloading at, quickly, 373 mbps. I want that kind of performance in this house.

Larry Hryb:
I'm going to come over and deliver for you, Jeff.

Larry Hryb:
Hey, let's see what else we got. I think that's really about it this week. It's been a busy week, as you said, in games. There's no quiet time in gaming anymore. Here we are.

Jeff Rubenstein:
That's good, though.

Larry Hryb:
That's good, though. Anything you want to add before we wrap up and I'll let you go? Hopefully, Rebecca will come back next week. I haven't heard from her. Hopefully, she's going to come back. Did she ghost us?

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah, she's traveling out.

Larry Hryb:
Okay. Hopefully, she didn't ghost the show.

Jeff Rubenstein:
She wouldn't do that. Everyone's entitled to a break including you.

Larry Hryb:
I know.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I'm trying to figure out how we would do the show without you. It would be messy, but we could just do it in like MS Paint. Could we do that?

Larry Hryb:
You could do it in Excel, do it in Excel.

Jeff Rubenstein:
There we go.

Larry Hryb:
By the way, I mentioned this to you on ... when you were away, when you're on holiday, is Twitter Spaces can now have cohosts?

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah, you had mentioned that.

Larry Hryb:
So, I think we should check ...

Jeff Rubenstein:
Are people really clamoring to hear more of us?

Larry Hryb:
I don't think so. But I'm just saying that the times that I'm not ... because to be fair doing this show, I know people enjoy the hour or whatever it is, an hour-and-a-half. But it takes ... there's a lot of prep work that goes into the show. So anyway, when I take the time off, it's not just the hour, it's probably a lot more than that. But anyway, maybe we can do Spaces.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Maybe you just leave your camera going. Give me the key to your house.

Larry Hryb:
No.

Jeff Rubenstein:
And then I'll just show up. I'll pop into that chair. So that way, you come home, it'd be nice and warm.

Larry Hryb:
I'll leave the white gloves for you.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Nice and warm chair. You can leave the white gloves. I'll find something to unbox. We'll just go through your closet or something.

Larry Hryb:
I will be good to go.

Jeff Rubenstein:
That'll be great.

Larry Hryb:
All right, Jeff, thank you for coming back to the show. I know there was a question whether you're going to join us again. So, thank you for coming back.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Let's try and get some other guests on here because I thought that was really enjoyable last week.

Larry Hryb:
I'll work on getting Parris also so we can talk about the Gamescom.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Parris, you're next.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah. Parris, we're coming after you, my friend.

Larry Hryb:
All right, gang. We'll see you next week. If you want to follow Jeff and I on social, you know how to do that, @majornelson, @jeffrubenstein. That's the complaint desk.

Larry Hryb:
Jeff, do you want to do your ... we haven't done the like and subscribe pitch in a while. You want to do that now.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah. No one's been liking and/or subscribing, but yeah, we love reading your comments especially on YouTube which is the easiest place to see those comments.

Jeff Rubenstein:
But if you're listening on audio, those reviews really do help us, help guide us into what to do and what not to do. So, please do it. But we're here for you.

Larry Hryb:
So, let us know.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Please, make yourself be heard.

Larry Hryb:
All right, Jeff, we'll see you guys. We'll see everybody next week. Everybody, have a great weekend. Stay safe wherever you are. Make sure you wear your sunscreen.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Stay cool. It's hot. It's hot.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah, stay cool, everybody. And we'll see you guys next time. Bye-bye, everybody.