Phil Spencer Xbox Games Showcase Interview | The Official Xbox Podcast

SPEAKER 1: Games in this podcast range from E to M.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Hello, everybody. Welcome to the official Xbox podcast, the only podcast coming to you from inside Xbox or outside of Summer Game Fest Play Days, where we are at the Fallout 76 fishing hole or fission hole.

PHIL SPENCER: Ah, okay.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Okay. We'll keep it. I'm Jeff Rubenstein. And along with someone who needs no introduction, Phil --

PHIL SPENCER: Phil Spencer.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Yep.

PHIL SPENCER: I work at Xbox.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: First podcast you've ever done in a lawn chair?

PHIL SPENCER: I believe in a lawn chair and in front of a kiddie pool. I think both of those are true.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Well --

PHIL SPENCER: Check them off the list.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: -- we're always trying to unlock achievements, even when we're away from our console. So we're here, like I said, at Summer Game Fest Play Days. And just this past Sunday, we brought two players two hours of games of hardware that they're going to be experiencing really already. Now, yes, we'll be getting to that. Before we get into really everything that we talked about on Sunday. I'd like to just talk more about Xbox in 2025, where things are as we got on a plane and flew down to LA. How are you feeling about the year?

PHIL SPENCER: I feel really good. I think 2025 is an exciting year for us. Maybe I'll start for us as a team. And I think our first-party teams have done amazing work so far this year when you think about the launches that we've had. We're investing in a new form factor, a piece of hardware for us, with our partners at Asus, which means, on our side, we have a lot of design work that we did with them. We did a lot of operating system work that continues the Xbox experience on that. These are areas we're investing. I think Game Pass is having an amazing year. I think when I look at Xbox Play Anywhere and how much that's showing up in the show, there's so many things that are working for us right now. And our jobs inside the company is to run a good business. We're accountable to Microsoft for running a good business, a healthy business that continues to grow at both top line and bottom line. That's kind of a foundation for us. And what that does is it allows us to continue to invest in Xbox for our community of players and creators and that we're doing. It does mean we have to make tradeoffs through the year on things that we're going to invest more in, things that we're not going to invest as much in because it is we are the business that we are. But the business is having really good success. I even think to the last quarter and some of the stats that Satya Nadella, my boss, the CEO of Microsoft, Amy Hood, the CFO, went through talking about how the business is growing. And I'm just really proud of the scale of the Xbox business right now. It's obviously never been as big as it is now. And how it's really delivering for our players, our creators, and the company. And it's a strong position.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: And I don't think our players have ever had so much to play in a given year. Just so far this year, we've experienced Avowed, South of Midnight, Oblivion remaster. We got to surprise everyone --

PHIL SPENCER: So good, so good.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: -- and just have an amazing time with reliving that world. Doom the Dark Ages. And then next month, we're going to have Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3 + 4, followed by Grounded 2, Gears of War Reloaded, Ninja Gaiden 4, Keeper. And it just goes on and on. And it's an incredible year. It's something we're, as a player, I'm certainly enjoying. But is this the plan playing out before our eyes?

PHIL SPENCER: Yeah, definitely. Getting the first party teams supported so they can go build the games that they envision that they want to build at the level of quality. It's not just about quantity of games. I also love the diversity when I look at the portfolio that we have. I think for us, in looking at the months and the year and making sure that we've got the right games at the right time, we're pacing the portfolio. It's always good learning and growth for us. But when I look at what the teams are able to deliver now, I'm just so proud. I think they're sharing ideas among themselves. They're learning and building on technology that each other is sharing, whether it's the coalition doing unreal work for so many teams or the tech work that gets shared between the teams. Really, allowing our first-party teams to deliver what I would say is some of the best games they've ever delivered is definitely the goal when you think about the pace then and the quality that we want to be at. And it's a great '25. And I'm really excited about 2026 as well.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Do we see that? Do you see the studios talking to each other and sharing expertise and things like that?

PHIL SPENCER: Yeah, I want to give kudos to Matt Booty and the leadership team of Studios. One of the things, and I grew up here building games in first party, it's not always easy as a team to find the right forum to share your ideas in a safe way because we know if we put it out there publicly, then it's on display, and it's going to get judged. And it's been awesome to see the community of our first party come together on tech forums, on kind of dev days of them sharing their ideas with each other and getting feedback. And when you look across the creative teams that we have, it's just an amazing, amazing group that, in a safe way, you can say, here's something I'm looking at, here's what I'd want to do, and get feedback from our other teams before you go public with something. And maybe you never go public with it. Maybe you try something, get feedback. And I see that. I see that from a technology standpoint, the shared tech that our teams share across the different teams, whether it's Unreal Engine work or the idtech work that you see moving around between the studios, the creative discussions that happen in the studios. I think it's leading to these teams. You think of something like South of Midnight, I mean, it's like Doom, the Dark Ages, these are amazing accomplishments that our teams are coming out with. I'm playing through Avowed right now, fantastic game. And I love that these teams are realizing their full potential.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: I've put about 65 hours into Avowed. I loved it and have been looking forward to -- Even coming into this weekend, we knew we had the Outer Worlds 2 Direct.

PHIL SPENCER: Yeah.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: We're going to be seeing that. Got to have an amazing surprise. I was just watching the chat as Grounded 2 got announced. And they're like a third game? A third game? Obsidian is just having an incredible year.

PHIL SPENCER: They are. They are. And you saw, when they were talking about also in the directs, how they leverage other teams. They partnered with external teams, a capability that we've had as Xbox for a long time, to allow them to increase their creative capability. So having Eidos-Montréal partnered with us in building games allows them to up the output. I think Grounded 1 was one of those that, with the first ones, 12 people that built that game. And we knew we wanted to go bigger with Grounded 2, the mounts, the things that they're adding. Played a ton of Grounded 1. But yeah, Obsidian internally really has a culture of learning through shipping and growing and building on the successes that they have. I think Avowed was fantastic. And I thought Outer Worlds 2 showed incredibly well in the show.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: And very cool that we get to play two games from them in the next four months.

PHIL SPENCER: Yeah. It's great. It's really great.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Looking forward to that. So I want to talk about In Exile next. I was a big fan of Wasteland 3, put dozens of hours into it. There's so much flexibility and different ways you can change the outcome of the game with their decision-making. We knew that they're a strong team when it comes to writing. Then you see Clockwork Revolution.

PHIL SPENCER: Yeah.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: And I was reminded of the meme. I owe you an apology. I was not familiar with your game. Did you know In Exile could do this?

PHIL SPENCER: Yeah, it's one of those things when you talk to Brian Fargo and the team, you knew that they were the ones that were going to set the bar very high for themselves. They had an aspiration that they wanted to hit creatively as a studio from our earliest, earliest discussions about them becoming part of Xbox. But it's hard being a small independent studio out there and looking for your next game while you're finishing your previous game and trying to just make sure that you've got the wherewithal to continue going. And I see them now with Clockwork, which I thought was just an amazing game in our show, like the first time we started looking at that asset and just watching the video come together and the gameplay and the team. That is a team that sets an incredibly high bar for themselves. And I'd say it's kind of a privilege to get to work with them in the level of expertise they have. And we were able to partner with them to give them some tech support, time, resources. And I think what you see now is just the ultimate manifestation of an In Exile game, a kind of a hard, gritty world, RPG mechanics, storytelling. I think the thing we all probably get a little blown away by is just the level of graphic fidelity --

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Yes.

PHIL SPENCER: -- that they're showing right now. And the game looks amazing.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: And also a very memorable trailer. I think the metagame for us was scrolling the social feeds and watching people go, okay, this is now moved to the top of my radar.

PHIL SPENCER: Yeah, we knew that. When we were looking at this, because you know this, we start crafting the show back in December, January, start looking at what might be in the show. And when we first started to get some sight into what In Exile was building, I knew it would be one of the real standouts in the show. And it was a privilege. We gave it a lot of time, too, in the show. It was one of those things we wanted to make sure people saw gameplay. They saw dialogue. They saw the ability to build and craft weapons and the different choices and skins that people had there. And then you wanted the story to pop through in the writing. So I'm glad that we gave it the time it had. And the response from the community has been fantastic.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Awesome. Another team that kind of keeps us guessing all the time, Double Fine. From one game to the next, we were talking earlier, the team that made Stacking, that also made Massive Chalice, these are games that everything is completely original. And it feels like Keeper is going to be another one of those in the pantheon from Double Fine.

PHIL SPENCER: Yeah, I'm a huge fan. It was one of those, when we were putting the flow, I wanted to make sure I got to talk about the game as we came out of the reveal for Keeper. I've known Tim since original Xbox. And big fan of Psychonauts. In fact, when I went, and I was watching that game kind of come into focus for the show, I went back. It reignited my Double Fine love. And I went back and played The Cave. I went back and played Iron Brigade. It was just reminding me of some of the great things that that team, very diverse team when you think about the different mechanics and stories that they've told. And that one just had such, I thought, a soulful play to it as you watched. And I can't wait for people to get to play. It's really great. We get to do new IP, which also showed up very well in the show when you think about Clockwork and Keeper and enable teams to go and create new.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Another game we don't have to wait too long before we all get to enjoy.

PHIL SPENCER: That's right.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Something I love about these shows, and obviously there's a lot of focus on the big reveals, the debuts, the world premieres, is that we're able to make space for these games that have been building communities for years and have been adding new content and have now tens of millions of players. So we saw Season 17 of Sea of Thieves. ESO showed off new content for their 26 million players, new content for Age of Mythology, which has been awesome to keep seeing that playing and including mythologies from all over the world. And Fallout 76, are you going to be --

PHIL SPENCER: Yes!

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: -- taking up fishing?

PHIL SPENCER: Ha! I love playing Fallout 76. I do have this issue that it's one of the games where I run around with my gamer tag on my head when I play the game. And the community is so inviting. But I always end up with a big group of people around playing. But it's a really interesting point on how you balance the mix of new things in our show, these communities, as you have millions and millions of players, and you want to be respectful of them and show the new content that's coming and the teams that do all of the work on those franchises. And I'm very proud of the success those teams have had in fostering and growing gaming communities around living games. It's not easy. You've had teams like Rare that this wasn't really in their background. And even when you watched at the launch of Sea of Thieves, and now we're sitting here at Season 17, just an amazing accomplishment by that team and all they've learned and evolved and grew. And it's another area where our teams share a lot of the ideas and learning because these are games that have a lot of players. The community is really strong. And we want to make sure we continue to support them.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Something that you've been very vocal about for many years is just how important it is for you to ensure that Xbox players are enjoying the amazing games that come out of game creators in Japan.

PHIL SPENCER: Yes.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: And we saw a lot of that here in the Xbox Games Showcase. We want to run down through some of the games here. Ninja Gaiden 4, of course, we've got to see a pretty --

PHIL SPENCER: Oh, on your list of 2025, we started the year, obviously, with Ninja Gaiden 2, the remaster. You just think about Ninja Gaiden means so much to us on Xbox, and it was awesome seeing 4 in the show. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: No, no, no, please, we're here to talk to you. So, Square Enix, the great surprise drop of Final Fantasy XVI, also the confirmation of Final Fantasy VII Remake.

PHIL SPENCER: Yep.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: It was fun watching the chat on that. A lot of OMG. That was sort of the most frequently seen thing. And even earlier in the week, I think during Jeff's show, we saw Final Fantasy Tactics coming to Xbox. One of my favorite games of all time. Super excited about that.

PHIL SPENCER: We did that for you. It was the Jeff --

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Don't think it didn't land -- It was my birthday week.

PHIL SPENCER: Oh, nice!

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: And I was like, they knew. They remembered.

PHIL SPENCER: I love that. I love that.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: And Persona 4 Revival, it feels like Persona and the SEGA and Atlus team seem to have, year after year, really been showing up in our show. Game Pass is the home of Persona these days. Also, Metaphor Refantazio from Atlus was the big showstopper, I want to say, two years ago and is now in the Game Pass.

PHIL SPENCER: Just Game Pass.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Yep.

PHIL SPENCER: Our relationship with the publishers that you're mentioning, whether it's the ones that are in our show, but even things like our relationship with Capcom. And I got to sit here at Play Days and go through Resident Evil and see the new game. Scary, but amazing. In the history of video games, so many of our great franchises have come from Japan. The creator community there is very strong. I have a lot of friends there that have built games for years. And I always like going and listening to what they need from a platform when they talk about, here's what we need in order to see the growth that they're looking for, whether it's growth in creative or growth in the games that they're building. So going out on the road and spending time in two ears, one mouth, I'm listening more than I'm talking, on what they need from us, I think is important, and gaining the trust. I think when a publisher decides to publish on our platform, to me, it's really a sign of trust that we're going to treat their games the right way, that we're going to be a good partner for them, whether it's Game Pass or just a retail game on the platform, and helping them deliver what they need to deliver with their games. And I love the support that we have. It's work. We're always there getting on planes and going and having discussions. I go to TGS every year. These are important relationships for us to build. But I also hear from the Xbox community, it's important to them. So it's important to me.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: You had mentioned stopping in and seeing Capcom yesterday. Actually, we were walking around, and you got your hands on the sticks on quite a few games. You walked around with Matt Booty and Sarah Bond. Anything jump out at you that you got to see, or you even just walked by? There's a lot of games here at Play Days.

PHIL SPENCER: The thing I'll just start with because -- I'm still going to call it E3 because I'm the old guy -- but first, is just seeing so many creators I've known for so long. And we got to sit down with Remedy and talk about Firebreak and Play. And I think it's great to see teams that I've known for a long time doing new things. Saw Ratatan from Patapon, that team. That was fun getting to watch. Matt played that one, so I got to kind of troll him from behind. And then I have to go to Mixtape, not only because it has a soundtrack that I just love but also we have a relationship with, obviously, the creative team there. We have for a while, and it's a great game, past game, for us. And the team at Annapurna has been great supporters. So I love getting around, meeting people new, talking to creators that maybe I only see once a year here or others that I see more often and really getting from them what their ideas are and seeing so many great games here at the show.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Yeah, it was really cool seeing the trailer for Mixtape in our showcase last year.

PHIL SPENCER: That's right.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: And then getting to see the actual game and getting the chance to play it was like, oh, no, this is what the game looks like.

PHIL SPENCER: That's right, and sounds like. I do think you can't -- Mixtape and the soundtrack, talking to how they were picking, I don't know what they're showing, so I won't unveil some of the tracks. But we were kind of riffing on some of our taste in music, and I think they really nailed it.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: With Johnny Galvatron.

PHIL SPENCER: That's right, yeah.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Very much a trip. We got to get him back on the show. Definitely one of the more gonzo interviews we've ever had on the Xbox podcast.

PHIL SPENCER: But a real thoughtful creator.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Yeah.

PHIL SPENCER: When you talk to him about the game he's trying to build and what I call the pacing and the flow and the emotion, it's just, you started this off. We're in the games industry. I think building an industry and platforms where games can be successful, supporting games in as many places that people want to go play, that's what this should all be about. I love that the show is here. I love that we're here. We're able to put on a show. It was kind of a nice week: Summer Game Fest, Sony State of Play. I thought all of the shows had their kind of unique and special takes, some great games to be shown. And that's what this should be about, is great games getting success, new and old. It's the signs of a healthy industry.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: So you mentioned still calling it E3. You're not the only one. I've probably watched every Xbox E3 press conference before I worked here. And then, of course, being involved in the last dozen of them or so.

PHIL SPENCER: A few.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Yeah, yeah. Just a few. And the trends stand out. I will note that it's been a long time since anyone rolled up their sleeve and then there was a tattoo under it. So, just for anyone keeping score at home, we're well overdue for something like that.

PHIL SPENCER: That's a Peter thing. Only Peter can pull that off. Peter is like no one else.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: So the trend that jumped out at me this year was the really front and center mentions of Xbox Play Anywhere and that program. We mentioned earlier this year there's over a thousand games that are Xbox Play Anywhere. It's something I avail myself of all the time. It's something that Final Fantasy XVI, I'm going to be downloading it on my RGLIX and playing it on the way home. So I love that. But I would like to just hear about the decision to make sure that was front and center in front of every new game that was shown in this showcase.

PHIL SPENCER: Yeah, we try to really be led by what the community is doing when they play. And more and more, we're seeing people play the same game in kind of multiple locations and making sure that my progress always counts. It's one of the things Ken Lobb, who's one of our creative leaders in our Studios, always says: Be respectful of every hour I spend in your game. It always should count. And core to that is to make sure not only does my entitlement move with me between the different devices that I play on, but that my progress moves with me and my community moves with me wherever I go. As you said, we started this a long time ago, really led with our first party. But one of the things I'm really proud of when I watch the show is how much third-party support we're getting for Play Anywhere. And it's really because those creators are seeing that -- what is it now? 28% growth in players playing multiple devices on our games, year over year -- that is a way of, if your game is more accessible to more people, they're going to play it more often. If they play it more often, they're going to enjoy it. And that really works. It doesn't mean everybody has to do it, meaning the players don't -- If you only want to play on console, you only want to play on your PC or your handheld, awesome. But when you decide to move around, I want Xbox as a platform to make that seamless and delightful.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: So let's talk about one of the ways that people are going to be very much looking forward to playing some of those games across platforms this year. It wouldn't be an interview with you if there wasn't something on the shelf. (laughter) And you've got this here. It's right behind the fish, so maybe nobody noticed it. So that is the ROG Xbox Ally.

PHIL SPENCER: That's right.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: You've been playing Velociraptor on it?

PHIL SPENCER: I've been playing a ton of things on it. I do travel too much. And to be honest, this one is not mine. I have the Xbox X version. But I have found that getting to play my favorite games wherever I am just makes me enjoy them more. And again, going back to Play Anywhere, but making sure that my games are always there. And we're seeing from the work that Nintendo did on the Switch, even before that, really, if you think about handhelds and Nintendo's amazing track record there. Steam, what they did with the Steam Deck. So many of the hardware manufacturers that they're building, Lenovo, Asus. So when we were on this path, we said, let's find a partner who can do a great job on the hardware. We know we've got real software and platform work to do as Microsoft and as Xbox. And I think this coming out this year with the partnership that we have with Asus is going to be just a great addition to what it means to play on Xbox.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: So one of the things that Sarah said during her segment where the ROG Xbox Ally was introduced was bringing together the power of Xbox and the freedom of Windows.

PHIL SPENCER: Yeah.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: How are those teams working together to deliver that Xbox experience on what is a Windows device?

PHIL SPENCER: It's probably three things I would hit on. I've been at Microsoft for a couple days. And I would say this is the tightest collaboration I've seen between the gaming organization and the Windows team in my three decades at the company. It's really amazing to see the teams focusing on opportunities for us to make the experience better and working, really, as one development team to realize that. Now, when you say the freedom of Windows, Windows is an open platform, and we want to support that on this device, meaning if you've got a storefront that you love, we want to make sure that that's fully supported here. If you've got a social place that you go, like a discord or something that you use to do voice communication, text communication, we want to make sure that's supported. It's not a closed platform. But there's some uniqueness then when you're supporting an open platform, but you want it to work as appliance-like, as a game console. And I think that's where these two teams coming together can really create something great together. So that's the thing that Xbox brings. Kind of the second thing of we've, for 25 years almost, we've been working on a console experience that you turn it on, it works, your games are there. And how do we bring that to the Windows ecosystem so you get the freedom of Windows to use the storefronts and the applications you want to use, but it feels like a device that's purpose-built? And then I'd say under the hood, we also know there's work for us to do on battery life, on interruptions, on performance. And I love just seeing the week-to-week grind the teams are doing. I'm sending my bug reports. Here's the things that we need to work on. And the progress has been amazing between the two teams.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: And I hear it's going to play Silksong when it comes out.

PHIL SPENCER: That's right. That's right. And, thank you, that was a good partnership to kind of feed them in and have them play a role in our hardware lineup. But it is really about playing the Windows games that you want to play. So if you're a big Roblox player, if you're a Fortnite player, if you're a Minecraft player, if you love Game Pass, we want to make sure the way you built your library as a player and the games that you want to go play are available on this device and that they play incredibly well.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: So one of the things you hinted at, you had mentioned 25 years, and next year is the 25th anniversary --

PHIL SPENCER: Yes, it is.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: -- of Xbox. And you said something very notable at the end of your segment, right before we got into Call of Duty Black Ops 7, and that is that players everywhere are going to be celebrating the 25th anniversary of Xbox with games and experiences that have really been core to that Xbox experience for all of that time, really.

PHIL SPENCER: Yeah. I wanted to make sure some of the franchises that we've talked about and maybe we're not showcasing them here at this show that I wanted people to know. When you think about Fable, when you think about Gears, we think about Forza, I mean, these are franchises that have been really part of what makes Xbox what it is today. And it's going to be a nice lineup next year. I love the games that we've launched so far in '25. I think, as you already went through, we have a strong finish to 2025. And then when I look at '26 and our 25th anniversary and the franchises that we're going to launch in that year, I think it's going to be a really special year for Xbox next year.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: I think that's a great note to go out on. So we will end it there. If you want to put your mic down and pick up your fishing pole, I'd be more than happy to see that. This actually marks the midway point in our week of deep dive episodes for the official Xbox podcast. You've heard from The Coalition. You've heard from Obsidian. Well, for the rest of the week, you're going to hear from Obsidian again. And then we're actually going to get the deepest dive you've seen yet in Invincible VS, the upcoming fighter, based on that awesome and quite gory series. So make sure you tune into YouTube.com/Xbox and look for the Podcast tab or search for the official Xbox podcast on Spotify or wherever you find your podcasts. Phil, thanks so much for joining us here. I think there's really just no other way to wrap up this podcast.

PHIL SPENCER: We're going fishing.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: We're casting.

PHIL SPENCER: Okay.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Thank you.

PHIL SPENCER: See you, everybody.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: See you.