Playing Dragon Age: The Veilguard with BioWare | Official Xbox Podcast

- I can't tell you how excited I am to be here in the heart of EA, Electronic Arts, Redwood Shores. And let me tell you, I just got to play Dragon Age: The Veilguard, and I can't wait to talk about it with you two. Closest to me, John Epler, tell us what you do with Dragon Age.

- Yeah, so I am the creative director for Dragon Age: The Veilguard, means that my focus is around lore, story, how we present the world, things like that.

- Just a few things.

- Just a few things, one or two little things, yeah, yeah, yeah. Corinne Busche, thanks for joining us today.

- Thank you for having us. I'm the game director. Basically, I oversee the player experience, how everything's coming together and generally just support the team, making this wonderful experience they're so passionate about.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: So you've had a crazy summer from announcing that the game is called The Veilguard in early June to revealing a bunch of the companions to then showing off the first hour or so of the game. And now you're here putting the game in people's hands. So like, what does it feel like to finally put the controller in the hand of creators and media?

JOHN EPLER: It's a bizarre experience, but in a great way, just being able to see people play this game that the teams work so hard on. I've been on the project for quite a long time, so it's just-- it's a culmination of a lot of years of hard work and really building a Dragon Age that we're excited about, but also that we want our fans to be excited about too.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: I think they are.

- I think a little bit.

- Just a little bit, yeah.

- What about the team? Like are they excited now? Like where are you at in the process?

JOHN EPLER: They are so excited. This is the part of the project that I think the team really cherishes because you get to see everything come together with clarity around everyone's contributions, how they're adding to that overall player experience. They're spending a lot of time playing the game, of course, appreciating each other's work. And I know they're so looking forward to fans and players being able to get hands on as well.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: And we're not that far away. So let's rewind just a little bit. Somehow it was three months ago, you and I sat in a room in downtown LA, and I jealously eyed you as you has the controller in your hand and you played through. And I was giving you orders a little bit. I was a little bit. I was like, parry that, parry that. And you did. And you showed that. I was like, great. Because I really wanted to see that.

But now I'm getting to see how things feel like, like I had an idea of how things feel. And I will say, I think they feel great, but I would love to know from the team's perspective, what was the goal for movement for just the overall moment to moment feel of the game? What were you like? What were you think is success if coming out of today, people are saying that. And of course when players get to do the same thing in October.

CORINNE BUSCHE: This is one of my favorite topics. What I always refer to is the fluidity of it. We want this to be an immersive experience where you feel like you're in these massive cities, where you're going toe to toe with these hordes of monsters and to really feel like you're in that immersive experience. It meant feeling like every action you want to take, every impulse you have as a player, the game respects and reacts to that.

I do want to give a huge shout out to the wonderful gameplay and animation teams because the work that's gone into animation branching, canceling, the intentionality behind it, the fluidity is something we're all quite proud of.

- When I I think Corinne said something, when you mentioned intentionality, I think one of my favorite things about building this game is how the gameplay interacts with the art, interacts with the level design, interacts with the story. We want you to feel like rook, like this character who's up against bluntly insurmountable odds, and in that moment to moment gameplay, really getting you to feel part of the action, part of the experience.

We talk a lot about storytelling, not just as it applies to cut scenes and conversations, but how the game feels, like that is part of the story. The actual actions of swinging a sword, firing a bow should feel like you are a rook in that moment. And I think that's something I think the team has done an amazing job of really pulling together.

CORINNE BUSCHE: Isn't it so wonderful when they'll share with us the anecdotes, these stories they're telling of their emergent gameplay, of what it was, how they handled a challenge, how they dealt with some of these apex bosses in the game. Frequently, there's cheering around the inventiveness of how people approach it.

- I do feel like pointing to where you talked about how like it's not just-- so the feel is beyond just like when you push a button, but like how the art and the animation and the sound even interacts. So a couple of months ago I was asking you to parry. And so I was like, I need to see, I want to feel what the parrying feels like. And I will say the sound is a sound that you want to hear. It just-- it just feels good. And also just the feeling of impact, so at one point I was switched over to a two-handed weapon, I was using a dwarven warrior and you can feel the difference as well as just see that.

So I want to talk about a couple of the moves. I actually-- every time I play an RPG and definitely Dragon Age, I've always been a rogue since Dragon Age II. And I know I'm going to do that here with The Veilguard when I get to play the game myself. So I was like, let me try something different. So I went with a dwarven warrior. And I think it may have won me over, which I did not expect, but there was a couple of really cool moves. This driving kick, which is the first-- the first move that you get and that it felt really cool and impactful.

But then I also did not expect to get like Captain America vibes that you can throw your shield. And I did love that. So I'm just curious. Obviously, I didn't get to see even a fraction of all the things that are available, different builds and all those types of things. Do you have any favorite moves, things you want people to keep an eye out for or things that you're particularly proud of as these things came together?

JOHN EPLER: It's hard-- it's a hard question to answer, because I was telling-- I've told Corinne this before. Every time I play the game, my favorite changes, it's like, all right, I'm going to play this time. I'm going to play two handed war. Oh man, this is my favorite now. OK, this time I'm going to play dagger or mage. Nope, this is my favorite. And I think, each of them to me is what I love about them is they each speak to a very specific class fantasy.

Like they make you feel like-- well, a rogue is very agile and moves around the battlefield. A mage is, you know, doesn't take maybe take quite as much damage. But they're powerful. They're all about the big attacks and, you know, using your dagger or your staff in effective way. So it's a hard question for me to answer. But yeah--

- I'll give you my actual favorites. I think it's pretty well known that rogue and the veil ranger specialization is my absolute favorite. But I will say the mage spell blade is not far behind. And in fact, if I were to tell you my all time favorite move in spell blade, you can unlock some traits where you take that orb, you're able to combo it into this massive swirling AOE. I'll tell you, when you go up against a dragon and you just clock that guy right in the face a couple of times with this AOE, nothing feels like it.

- So Corinne, you've mentioned combos, you've mentioned move animation canceling and or branching animations. These are things that I'm used to hearing, like maybe when we're talking about a fighting game or-- and so it's been a decade since Dragon Age: Inquisition, and a lot has changed in that time. Like the Witcher Three came out in that time.

- Yes.

- Elden Ring came out, and what people think about with an action RPG has evolved tremendously in the last decade. So how are you thinking about what goes into a modern, quote, unquote, modern RPG versus the expectations of Dragon Age fans who have been with you for, you know, more than 15 years?

CORINNE BUSCHE: Yeah, well, first and foremost, autonomy, player autonomy, giving you that choice in how you want to jump into this world, how you want to experience it, what your gameplay loop feels like. The choices are pretty spectacular. There is a lot of depth in the progression system that allows you to create that build that clicks for you.

And hopefully along the way, you get some gear that maybe tempts you to try out a different build. That's certainly the foundation of it. We also know we're in the midst of an RPG renaissance and the bar has really been raised in terms of responsiveness, fidelity, that sense of control. And yeah, I think we're quite proud of what the team has done to deliver. That really fluid take on the Dragon Age formula.

- I felt it. I hope everyone else feels it too. It won't be that long. So I want to talk a little bit about some gameplay that I saw. So last night as I was on my way down here, I saw the IGN first, so both of you were with Kat Bailey. It's about 22 minutes of footage that I had never seen before, and one of the things that jumped out at me, Corinne, and I'm not calling you out here, but

- There we go.

- But I'm calling you out. But you were on, like, the final sliver of your health, like, multiple times and to the point where I was like there must be a mode set where they're invincible. But then, no, actually, that's how it ended. Again, that's not my point is not that. My point is this game, or at least that part looked hard. And I'll be honest, like I play a ton of RPGs, and a lot of them, I might see a game over screen once, you know, if that, if I'm careless or something like that. Clearly, that doesn't seem to be the case here. Is there a conscious effort to make sure that there is challenge there? I don't know if that's maybe just even that evolution of where RPGs are going these days.

- Absolutely, yeah. We spoke of that RPG renaissance. And one of the trends that have come of this is an increased focus on challenge, tactics, strategy. So really, you feel like you have a mastery of the game? It is quite challenging. You know, it's funny you mentioned that anecdote, if I may share, for the longest time, my good friend John Epler here died in front of the entire team. And for a year we didn't live it down. But now Corinne gets to die in front of the whole world.

- I finally have-- I finally have an ability to one up Corinne because, yeah, it was-- it's still a thing, but I think what Corinne saying I think about challenge is especially, allowing you to making sure that you have that ability and that honestly, that incentive to use your whole tool kit because there's so much you can do in this game, so many ways you can approach gameplay that we want to make sure that for players who do have that, like I'm a kind of player who loves challenge, you know, Elden Ring things like that. I love the ability to go in and make the game feel a lot more challenging, but at the same time also allowing other players to customize their experience.

- That's such a good point. Our player base is so diverse in their motivations, their expectations. And I'm with you, John. I love a good Soulslike. I like to play on the hardest difficulties of our game. And it is really tuned around that element of when you survive, it's often by just a hair's breadth and the exhilaration that comes from that. But if you're that player that maybe you're mostly here for the story, or maybe you're here for exploration, any number of motivations, I love how deeply customizable our difficulty options is from the various presets we have, which are all valid ways to play. And then if you want to create your own custom difficulty.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: I noticed that.

CORINNE BUSCHE: Yeah.

- So you mentioned exploration. And in the area that I've played so far this morning, very focused, early in the game, expected in that. IGN, first I noticed, getting a lot of shout outs to IGN, but we love them. Kabil is great. So you were, you were in an area called The Crossroads. And it seemed that there was more areas for exploration or opportunities. Can you talk about how you're balancing exploration versus, OK, we don't want to like necessarily overwhelm with like a million different things and you're completely lose the plot when the world is ending?

CORINNE BUSCHE: Jump in on the gameplay loop. And then, John, if you want to go into the creative and narrative there. So again, I mentioned autonomy earlier. We sincerely believe that autonomy player agency is what really captures the imagination of the RPG fan. So we knew with exploration, though, we are a very handcrafted, mission-based game, exploration is a huge part of it.

You mentioned crossroads. It's one of my favorite areas in the game, not only because you're using it to functionally travel to all corners of northern Thedas, but the mysteries within-- its optional content, but I almost hesitate to call it that because these stories reliving Solis's rebellion, some of the bosses you're going to fight, my goodness, if you're looking for challenge, you're going to discover them there. But it's going to make you work for it. I love 100% in each of these larger exploration areas. And look if you're that kind of player, you're going to be in for the long haul.

JOHN EPLER: Nice. And I think the other side of it for me is it gives players an opportunity, because there are some very heavy story beats that you're going to run into. And sometimes you don't want to be doing like five of those in a row. You're like, well, I feel the most depressed I've ever been. But it gives you that opportunity of like, OK, I'm going to do some heavy story stuff. Now, I want to do some exploration.

Even in those exploration spaces, the side content you can come across is story focus. It has a narrative. It just may not be necessarily tied to a specific character arc you're doing or something like that. So for me, the kind of player I am is I do a bunch of story in a row and then I just go off and explore and I spend a bunch of time in the crossroads and our other exploration spaces,

And I love that you can kind of curate your own experience with content that is itself curated to be really focused around what's the theme of the space, what's the theme of this character? So a lesson we learned from DEI, and I mean, everyone remembers the Hinterlands, making sure that content felt narratively relevant.

Even if it's not directly contributing to the critical path of the game, it's contributing to the story of these spaces. Because each of these spaces, we're very careful in putting you in places that have this deep narrative in them, this story that again, it runs parallel, but not disconnected from the story of the fight against the elven gods. But it's more fun than just like collect eight.

- Exactly.

- Let me be clear. We did not want to go the fetch quest route. So everything-- our goal is to make it narratively rich and tie back, as John said, to the areas and the overall narrative. And I will say one of my favorite loops when we talk about, say, the Crossroads or Hossberg Wetlands, we talk about the exploration loops and opportunity within those spaces. But there's so much bigger than that.

One of my favorite loops is discovering these secret areas in the Crossroads that are going to require you to go out into other exploration areas in the world and really track down these elements you need, solve these mysteries to come full circle, bring it back and discover entirely new aspects of these zones.

CORINNE BUSCHE: Very good. Very good. Great answer. I love that. One other thing that I saw last night, again last time, we'll reference this again first, but there was a lot in there was the Lighthouse. Seems like a base area, but it seemed like there was conversation that it will change over time. I'd love to-- if you could just share more on that.

- Yeah, so the lighthouse is Solas's old base of operations. And one of the things we really wanted to make it feel like is there's, it's a character in its own right in a way. And that it evolves and it reacts to the people that are coming into in this case, you're recruiting members of the Veilguard, they're showing up. And these spaces that were-- when you first show up at the beginning of the game, dusty and empty, become full of that character's personality.

And you'll actually see the evolution of the space over time. But again, we wanted to make sure that, you know, in Dragon Age Inquisition. We had Skyhold. It was a huge space. We wanted to make sure that there was a focus. And I think focus is a word that we're going to use a lot. But it's about these characters, it's about their stories. And it's also about learning who Solis was before the events of the Veilguard.

- It's very intimate in that regard, isn't it? You know, it's been interesting, following the discourse online. We released a couple of screenshots of the various companions rooms within the Lighthouse. And I've been loving the speculation. I'm absolutely here for it. What's interesting is as the companions grow and the world of Thedas evolves, how that's reflected in the lighthouse. You'll see more and more of the companions character come out in their surroundings.

- So one last question here. This is our first time getting hands on. There's lots of people here and you're letting us capture lots and lots of video. The internet is going to be flooded with Dragon Age: The Veilguard stuff over the course of the next several weeks. What are you hoping people notice and take away the most, whether it's labor of love details, whether it's a topic that maybe hasn't been discussed as much as you think deserves? I would love to hear about that from you.

- There's so many ways we could answer this question. I think the biggest one for me, the one that resonates the most with me personally is that this is a game where you can see yourself in the characters, in how you role play Rook. This is a game where everyone is welcome to live out their own version of this story. And it just means a lot to me to see the reactions from fans, even within the dev team, to see the appreciation of, you know, I can really see myself in this.

- And I think for me, it's kind of-- it kind of touches on what you said earlier. It's about the amount of love that's been poured into all these details by the team and how they all connect together. And they feel, again, like a really cohesive experience. It's a Dragon Age game. And I mean, I've been on all the previous Dragon Age games.

It feels-- seeing how much this feels like Dragon Age 10 years later is kind of what I'm hoping people pull out of this is it's just you get into it and the moment you start, you see, so it's like, yep, this is Dragon Age. This is 100% Dragon Age.

- I'll tell you the, the thing I'm most excited about once players have it in their hands, is just hearing about the choices they've made, the adventures they've gone on, who they romanced, of course.

JOHN EPLER: Of course.

CORINNE BUSCHE: Those are the stories that make Dragon Age and why people still talk about Dragon Age Inquisition 10 years later.

JOHN EPLER: And I mean, for me, honestly, we're talking about once they have it in their hands, it's all the answers to questions that they've had for years. And then also because it's Dragon Age, brand new questions that they can now find-- try to find the answers to.

CORINNE BUSCHE: Wouldn't be fun if you answered everything.

JOHN EPLER: Exactly.

JEFF RUBENSTEIN: All right. Before we wrap up here, I'd love for you to look directly at the camera. Dragon Age: Veilguard is coming out October 31st. What do you say to the children who are not going to be allowed to go trick or treat because their parents are going to say, I'm sorry, mommy and daddy are staying home and playing this game. You can hand out candy to everybody else.

CORINNE BUSCHE: My goodness, I would say, look kiddos, you get Halloween every other year. Let the parents have one.

- And I'll say lifehack, Halloween candy is on sale the day after Halloween and you can gorge yourself on that.

- Appreciating the value, these are lessons learned. They got to learn eventually. Corinne, John, thank you so much. Wishing you the best of luck as we lead into that final stretch of launch for Dragon Age: The Veilguard. But thanks for taking time to visit us here on the Xbox podcast.

- Thanks for having us. It was awesome.

- It's been such a pleasure. Really appreciate it.

- Thank you.

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