Host, Xbox's Major Nelson
Marketing Director, Zen Studios
Emmanuel "MASTER" Rodriguez
Team NINJA Community Manager
Halo Community Director at 343 Industries
[MUSIC PLAYING] LARRY HERB: Hi, it's Larry Herb, Xbox's major nelson. Welcome back to the Xbox podcast. Like, subscribe, hit the bell, leave a comment, do all the stuff that Jeff wants you to do. Hi, Jeff.
JEFF: I'm over here.
LARRY HERB: The reverse. And that's Rebecca over there. And then, what's even better, Jeff-- first of all, welcome, guy. If we go full-screen on Rebecca, we have Pumba in the background kind of--
REBECCA: Kind of hidden.
LARRY HERB: --camouflaged a little bit. Yeah.
JEFF: That looks like a-- I thought that was like Simba. It looks a lion is sort of-- a baby lion just sprawled out there.
REBECCA: He's a very good boy hiding back there in all my calls. I've actually had a few people ask me is that a real background, or is that just a picture of your dog? But yeah--
JEFF: I was on that call.
LARRY HERB: Anyway, we're back in the seats. We're back in the show. Hey, guess what, gang? It's March.
LARRY HERB: How do you feel about hat?
JEFF: But you know how like Tuesday it doesn't have a feel? No one goes, yeah, it really feels a Tuesday. That's March. March is like the Tuesday of the year.
LARRY HERB: OK.
REBECCA: I guess that's true. March, especially in Seattle, is still really chilly.
LARRY HERB: And gloomy.
REBECCA: But down here, all of the flowers are starting to bloom on trees. And--
LARRY HERB: Spring is here?
REBECCA: --it's kind of crisp. Yeah, in the Bay. Spring is here. It's nice.
JEFF: More of a Wednesday then for you. Yeah.
REBECCA: Yeah, Wednesday.
LARRY HERB: I'm looking outside, and I don't-- it's not really spring yet. We got a little bit of leaves out there, but I can't tell if they're old leaves or new leaves.
JEFF: Larry, did you change your glasses for the show?
LARRY HERB: Maybe. Why?
JEFF: So I was in a meeting with Larry right before we taped here. And I don't know if you still have them, but I was like, Larry, did you borrow a pair of glasses from Elton John? Because they-- I don't know if it was the light, or if they-- they looked like they had sparkles on them. And I was going to say something. Yeah, there it is.
REBECCA: Whoa. Can you get closer? Is it like mother of pearl? What's the material there?
LARRY HERB: Yeah, there's a little bit. There's a little bit of that in there. Good eye, by the way. Very good eye.
JEFF: I know. And I didn't know if it was the lighting, but it's like no. When is when are you doing your podcast duet with Dua Lipa, is when I want to know?
REBECCA: Yeah, those are fantastic.
REBECCA: Very fashion forward--
LARRY HERB: Should I keep these on?
JEFF: Oh, I think you should.
REBECCA: You should keep them on.
LARRY HERB: Oh, OK. There you go. I will keep them on then--
REBECCA: As long as you can see like normal.
LARRY HERB: --for this audience. Anyway. Well, thank you for calling that out, Jeff. We've got a great show for you today. We're going to talk about what we're playing in just a minute.
We'll run through the news. We're going to talk about-- we've got some great interviews as well. We're going to talk about Pinball, Halo, Wo Long Dynasty, all the things all for you coming up. Right, gang?
JEFF: Clap, clap.
REBECCA: Absolutely. Right after this commercial break.
LARRY HERB: No, there's no commercials. You don't have to pay for this podcast because you're not getting your money's worth. And we're just part of the platform here. We're going to talk about some games. I don't even know what am-- oh, I finished Dead Space. I'll talk about that.
LARRY HERB: Yeah.
JEFF: Go on. You're already there. You're already talking about it.
LARRY HERB: I mean, for those of you that play Dead Space, Jeff and I-- Jeff was in the office yesterday, and we were talking a little bit about it. There's a lot of really classic jump scared gaming moments in that game, and it was just so good to be back on there.
Of course, in this version, the latest version, Isaac has a voice. So he's got more of a character. So that that's fine.
JEFF: Isn't there sort of, I don't want to say director. That's definitely a term from a different game, but something where the jump scares you get, like some of them I'm sure are scripted.
LARRY HERB: Right.
JEFF: And a lot of them might be different than what you get. And so did you find that you were getting unexpected dudes sneaking up behind you?
LARRY HERB: It's funny you say that because there was a little bit of that. There was-- because I play with the headphones on, and I love a good spatial. And that game is so you get your audio cues of things up. And you can hear things up in the ductwork or coming down the hallway.
And there was some moments I'm like, I think I remember that something was going to happen here. I guess not. And then I start walking over here. And it's more-- to your point, Jeff it's more than just tripping a monster closet. It's a little more sophisticated than that.
JEFF: I think it's called the intensity director. I think that's what I read. So yeah, if things are a little slow-- I don't know if it's detecting how scared you are, and it throws more things at you.
REBECCA: It's like this guy is walking really slow. We should ease up on it a little bit. Yeah.
LARRY HERB: Yeah, it was definitely a lot of fun there. So I'm looking forward to-- it was just so good to be back on the ship and being in space.
LARRY HERB: The Ishimura and being in space and kind of going through it again. It was really a lot of fun. I really enjoyed it, so it's was--
JEFF: It seems like a lot of people are.
REBECCA: That's good. I can't even watch the last of us after 6:00 PM, or else I get nightmares. So I could not play Dead Space.
JEFF: I finally started watching that last night, and I had two independent nightmares about-- and the first episode, not even especially scary. You don't really see all that much, and I'm already through the games dreaming of clickers. And so maybe should not watch after 10:00 PM.
REBECCA: I do love the first episodes, like the-- what's it called? Like, the pandemic and all the chaos breaking out, like those sequences. I always love those parts in zombie movies and scary movies when everyone starts to realize like, oh, my god, there's something happening. And there were some pretty jumpy, scary parts there. But generally, yeah, the first couple episodes are a little slow on the clickers.
LARRY HERB: Of course, we're talking about Last Of Us, which a lot of folks are watching. It's based on the hit game. And I have not seen any of the episodes yet, so let's keep the spoilers free, gang, because I'm going to wait until it's everything's done, and I'll binge it.
JEFF: Yeah you know speaking of Pedro Pascal-- I don't know if you--
LARRY HERB: Who was?
JEFF: Maybe it fits in the news. Who's the star? He plays Joel.
JEFF: Mandalorian is back.
LARRY HERB: He's on everything, right?
JEFF: He really is everywhere. But you know what? Everyone likes him. And Malik is oftentimes on the show. And he's actually in LA right now.
LARRY HERB: Oh, he's doing the red carpet isn't, he?
REBECCA: Oh, that's right.
JEFF: He did the red carpet, and he's like-- in real, life Pedro Pascal is apparently incredibly nice. He was spending time with fans. You always like--
REBECCA: It makes me so happy to hear. Yeah.
JEFF: --to hear that. Yes, yes. And actually, I don't know if you saw the Nick Cage movie with him, like the Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent.
REBECCA: Oh, yeah, he's really funny in that.
JEFF: He's really good in that movie, too. So you know what? Like, amazing that you can be everywhere.
REBECCA: He has range.
JEFF: I'm fine with that.
LARRY HERB: He's everything everywhere all at once, isn't he?
JEFF: Another great movie. However, no Pedro Pascal on that one. But yeah, yeah, we can talk more about that later, the Mandalorian tie-in.
LARRY HERB: Well, I'll have to have Malik back on the show maybe in the future to talk about-- I mean because you--
JEFF: Or Pedro Pascal.
LARRY HERB: Or Pedro.
REBECCA: That's what I was hoping he was going to say.
LARRY HERB: Yeah, I'll reach out to his people. But I think, I mean, right now, they're in the publicity cycle of--
JEFF: He's so hot right now.
LARRY HERB: Right. Everybody's trying to get him on. But, yeah I know, it's-- Jeff, I know you've done your share of red carpets. Rebecca, have you been on the red carpet before or done any of the Hollywood stuff?
JEFF: I have not.
LARRY HERB: Yeah, we'll have to arrange because I've done quite a few of them. You got to at least check off the box to do it. It's pretty interesting.
JEFF: Yeah, Stein was there last night doing a stream. A lot of you who listened to the show may follow us on Twitter. And Josh Stein is a-- he's very online, as they say.
REBECCA: He's kind of a Star Wars fan, just a little bit.
JEFF: A little bit, little bit. So yeah, he was doing a livestream with some other members of the team. But yeah, he was doing that red carpet thing, which is--
LARRY HERB: Yeah, which is a lot of fun.
JEFF: It's kind of fun to be able to bring people along on that. The archive should be on twitch.tv/xbox.
LARRY HERB: Exactly. So anyway, we're talking about what we're playing. Jeff, let's get over to you. You want to talk about what you been up to lately?
JEFF: Well, I've been no lifing--
LARRY HERB: I've been no-lifing Like A Dragon-- Ishin! I'm actually really close to beating it. I'd imagine I'll beat it in the next day or two. This is going to shock you. Really like this game. Like A Dragon is what you may know as the Yakuza Series now, which its name in Japan, those that whole series was always called Like A Dragon. Now they've kept it consistent. Now all future quote unquote Yakuza games will be called Like A Dragon here. So Ishin!-- and we talked about it at some point and the past, but it takes place in the 1860's. So very different.
Turns out, a lot of these the things that are covered in the game, did happen. There's actually a little glossary, at a certain point, where they'll mention a prefecture or a--
REBECCA: Oh, like historical references.
JEFF: Historical person you'd see in--
REBECCA: It's pretty cool.
JEFF: Right now, did someone who looks a lot like Kazuma Kiryu go through and single-handedly fight like a thousand people to foment the Meiji Restoration?
LARRY HERB: They plussed it up a little, the game.
JEFF: Probably not, but then again, I do like it when a game makes me dive down a Wikipedia hole and I'm learning a lot about that era, where Japan opened up to-- and really, had a lot of changes that bring us to the modern day. And so it's really interesting.
LARRY HERB: Well, it's interesting you say that because you look back in a lot of games, we've seen this in the Assassin's Creed games, teaching people history--
JEFF: Yes, exactly.
LARRY HERB: A lot of different games will do that. Pentiment, great example, right?
JEFF: It's very, very true. And some of the folks in Pentiment that are referenced and things are real life-- Andreas Moeller, I think his name was in the game-- Sakamoto Ryoma was a real person, a real swordsman, in that era of Japan.
LARRY HERB: You're switching from Pentiment to something else.
JEFF: But it's just interesting that--
REBECCA: Base it off of real characters, yeah.
JEFF: But to actually play an element of it is really cool and makes you identify, I think, with life might have been like for folks back then.
LARRY HERB: Well, and this is the way Jeff, when you and I are growing up, and maybe Rebecca to a certain degree as well. I mean, this is how-- this is what we used instead of-- maybe some of us-- I know that certainly with Malik it's the case, he didn't read books.
JEFF: He's not here to defend himself.
LARRY HERB: But I'm not saying anything more than the factual representation. I'm not going to judge. But this is the way a lot of the younger people are getting their history. And my sister is a librarian, and I've talked a little bit about this in the show, and she has kids. She'll ask me what are the new games coming out.
And she'll order books because she knows when that game drops or shortly thereafter people are coming into the library and asking about some of the subjects that were covered in some of the video games. I gave her a heads up on Pentiment. She had kids coming in asking for Germanic history books and things--
REBECCA: Oh, that's pretty cool.
LARRY HERB: Yeah, so it's really-- it's great to see that cycle that it will inspire you, Jeff, to your point, it'll lead them down a Wikipedia hole or want to learn more with an actual physical book, or maybe see a movie based on it. So it's great because we as humans crave more information and we want to learn. And it's just so exciting to see how some games will do that.
JEFF: Yeah, I've definitely developed-- that's happened to me, now I'm thinking about it, after I played God of War 2018, I ended up buying the Norse God collection by Neil Gaiman and got into that. And it just-- anything that initiates that curiosity is really cool. So yeah.
LARRY HERB: So what else are we-- so are we going to focus on-- that's what you're playing right now?
JEFF: That's what I'm playing. And then, I've gotten very into Genshin Impact because my-- Look, if your kid plays something, you're going to get into it. So actually, I have my-- I have an iPad that's always just sitting right here off side. And if a meeting gets a little boring, I flip it up there and I grind a little bit and get into that world as well.
But certainly my primary thing has definitely been Ishin! and--
LARRY HERB: I'll make a note when we go into a meeting, if I see you glance off screen, I'll say, isn't that right, Jeff?
JEFF: And I'll be, yeah, yes--
LARRY HERB: Anyway, Rebecca, what have you been up to it? You've had a chance to play-- I know you've been watching The Last Of Us. Have you had a chance to pick up a controller or a mobile device?
REBECCA: Yeah, The Last Of Us has been really taking over the conversations with me and my friends lately. It's a great show. Larry, you're kind of missing out, but--
LARRY HERB: I'm going to watch it. I'm going to watch it. I'm going to watch it at the very end. So don't worry, I'll get there. Don't worry about it.
REBECCA: OK. But aside from that, yeah, I've been perusing PC Game Pass. There's a lot of really good games out. But I saw a lot of folks trying out Disney Dreamlight Valley, so I've been playing that kind of here and there. I spent way too long in the character creator.
But I'm kind of looking for my next good PC Game Pass game. So if you guys have any recommendations--
LARRY HERB: Oh yeah. OK. We'll keep that in mind.
JEFF: There's some good stuff coming. Actually, I think it was Ryan McCaffrey who wrote an article on IGN about how it's having a great season-- an incredible season, maybe the best stretch ever. So I don't know if you play at Hi-Fi RUSH, that would be my--
REBECCA: Oh yeah.
JEFF: --top recommendation. And then Wo Long-- Fallen Dynasty is out today, depending on when you're listening to this.
REBECCA: Yeah, I actually just watched the trailer for that earlier. It looks graphic, but really good.
LARRY HERB: Well, I guess this is an awkward moment because-- should we just go into the interviews? Because Jeff has an interview about Wo Long-- Fallen Dynasty.
JEFF: Yeah, it's out today.
REBECCA: I think it's a good point.
JEFF: It's really highly anticipated.
LARRY HERB: All right, so Rebecca, why don't you bring us into the interviews, if you would please.
REBECCA: So like Larry said, Jeff did a great interview for Wo Long-- Fallen Dynasty. And then Larry actually did a couple of different interviews for Pinball FX and Halo Infinite's new season. So let's check those out.
LARRY HERB: Folks that have been around for a while. Of course, from Xbox 360, remember the amazing pinball games that we have on there? Well, I've got some great news. Pinball FX is now available on Xbox Series X and S, as well as some other consoles. Joining us today is-- and I'm going to try to get this name right-- Akos Gyorkei. Akos, welcome to the show.
AKOS GYORKEI: Thank you, thank you. It's an honor to be here.
LARRY HERB: Yeah, I'm so thrilled to have you on. Of course, I remember folks have been following me for a while or have been on Xbox for a while remember Pinball FX3, I believe, from the original 360. So it just was so exciting when I saw that you guys had a re-release. And I reached out and I said, let's get you on and talk about what's new in pinball. So tell us a little bit about the game and how we can download it, because you've done a few different things this time around, right?
AKOS GYORKEI: Yeah yeah, we tried to innovate. It's a bit harder in the pinball space, but we're trying to get some new stuff in there. So Pinball FX is still a free download, as has been FX2 and FX3. You can get a bunch of tables. We have 80 plus now, so I think it's our biggest launch.
And you can get them from the store but a new thing is the pinball pass, which is-- we can get it for a month, you can get it for a year, and it will give you access to the most paid-- Sorry, most tables, just by getting the pass.
LARRY HERB: And it's interesting because I have it loaded up here. And there's a free table right off the bat here that you get, which is kind of a Western theme, and you can kind of a little bit see a little bit of the gameplay here. And trying to talk and play at the same time is a little challenging. But this is-- it's a fun little table to get into.
But to your point-- in fact, I'll go in here and-- This is live. This is actually happening because this is available right now, is I want to go back and show the fact that you do have all of these tables available. So I can go back in here-- And you can kind of see them, and I've got access to many of them, but there's quite a collection. You've got the Marvel collection, a bunch of different ones. Star Wars, I mean, look at all the Star Wars ones.
Tell us about bringing those tables to a digital format and how they're true-- because many folks that grew up with pinball, because pinball predates video games, tell us about working with the companies to dignify their physical versions of pinball, because that's a really interesting project.
AKOS GYORKEI: It is, it is. Yeah. What we do with the William staples, which are the recreations from the '80s and the '90s, these very legendary pinball tables, is that we digitize the actual machine. So we get it into the office, we do the 3D capture, we do all the things. We take it apart. So it's quite an adventure to get these going.
LARRY HERB: And they're all--
AKOS GYORKEI: But the Star Wars and--
LARRY HERB: I mean, they're basically the same. It's a cabinet and it's got electronics. But they're all wildly different from the-- Obviously, the design, the gameplay, the structure of them, right?
AKOS GYORKEI: Yeah. They are. Every table is unique. Much in the design of the layout, like what you have to shoot. But pinball there-- That's going on. And we have to show different things, there's different quests. So these are all unique as well.
LARRY HERB: I don't know if you'd know this, but the head of Xbox studios, Matt Booty, used to work at Williams. And he actually did a lot of audio for these games. So I had a chat with him about what it's like to see the work that he used to do in the physical space migrate to the digital space. But that's an interesting connection that we have with pinball from Xbox. I'm sure you know that.
AKOS GYORKEI: That's awesome. I didn't know that, but it's a fantastic fact.
LARRY HERB: Yeah, it's very interesting. But one of the things I want to talk about is-- I mean, this has been-- Zen Studios has been on Xbox since-- and people may not know this name-- you do and I do-- since Xbox Live Arcade, so you were one of the original digital delivery game systems on Xbox. And frankly, in the industry, right?
AKOS GYORKEI: Yeah, yeah. We like to pride ourselves that we are at the forefront of every innovation that's happening. So we're really happy to support Xbox Live Arcade. And we've done really well there. So a Captain America table was the top of the page for-- So that was amazing.
LARRY HERB: Yeah Yeah. One of the things I want to talk about is we talked about bringing a cabinet into your studio and scanning it in and getting it ready and bringing it in to the console. But beyond that, how do you migrate or make this really visceral physical experience of standing in front of a cabinet, leaning on it, watching the lights go off, watching the ball go around the table, and translate it into a digital experience?
I mean, because part of it is-- I mean, I remember playing pinball, give it a little English, give it a little kick to the table. How do you how do you do that?
AKOS GYORKEI: Yeah, it is a big challenge. We tried to bring some haptics in there, do the rumble in the controller when you kind of kick the table a little bit. But our lead designer, Peter Grafl, has been playing pinball for decades. He was there when the first games came to Hungary. He has a couple of machines in his home.
So one fun thing was when he did like slow mo recordings of the flippers, because they actually move around a lot. You don't see it, but when the ball hits, they really have a little wiggle.
LARRY HERB: Right.
AKOS GYORKEI: So that was a big innovation for the William staples, and now for the same in Pinball FX.
LARRY HERB: Yeah, I mean, that's one of the subtle things a lot of people don't know is-- Exactly, all of these little physical elements that you and your team brought to digitizing table. And to be honest with you, I don't think anybody does it at all like you guys. I mean, you're kind of the main player in this area. So it's going to be interesting to see.
And would you say that pinball as a whole, the physical games, is it on a resurgence or is it kind of flat right now? Or tell us what you're seeing from where you sit.
AKOS GYORKEI: Yeah, Yeah, pinball looks like it's making a comeback. The whole arcade or these barcades are popping up again in the US, and even like Western Europe. So there's a lot of physical machines getting released as well. There are more and more companies, even like smaller ones, who has one machine or they work out of a garage. So yeah, pinball is coming back. It has a resurgence in digital and physical as well.
LARRY HERB: I'm showing a little bit of your trailer right now and you can see all the boards are wildly different in terms of design and colors and feel and look. And there's so much-- there's so there's so many physical components, it's not just balls on a board here. You've got things that really make sense in the universe of what the pinball board-- like I love that noir one, that black and white one. That's so cool. It's kind of cool. What's your favorite go to board to kind of kick back and relax to? Do you have one?
AKOS GYORKEI: Yeah, yeah. It's a [AUDIO OUT] one. It's called Whitewater. It's sort of like a rafting, kind of mountaineer themed game. It's really fun.
LARRY HERB: Right. And I want to point something out, and this, we talked a little bit about this, but I want to make sure people are very clear. The base game is free to download. And you can go ahead and download and you get the pinball machine the Western themed one that I showed just a moment ago, you'll get that right out of the gate.
And as you said, you can purchase the individual tables or a pass. So there's no reason you shouldn't be downloading this if you want to check out pinball if you want to introduce someone in your family or maybe someone that's never played pinball. And then you may see a board that you may like and then you can grab it, right? Because you have a whole in game system here that I showed earlier.
AKOS GYORKEI: Yeah, yeah. We also have a triode mode for all tables. So you can try them out before buying. You don't have to just play the free Western table.
LARRY HERB: Right.
AKOS GYORKEI: You can just try out all the different boards if you want to.
LARRY HERB: Yeah, I mean, I'm looking at. This is back of the trailer, but I'm kind of going to go back here because this is one of my favorite, which is the Indiana Jones board, which is kind of-- it's just really, really-- and you can kind of see, I just launched it right there. One of the other things that-- and I can kind of kick the board back and forth-- back and forth here.
One of the other things is you've got some really interesting components here, like the manual camera set up and things like that, that really enable players to do what they want on the pinball and look exactly whether they're standing over it or maybe down lower, right? You can kind of move yourself around.
AKOS GYORKEI: Yeah, yeah. We have a different camera options. And what's new here is we introduced a manual camera, which you can kind of go over the rail on the table and kind of find your kind of view that you want to use.
LARRY HERB: Yeah, I'm kind of looking at it right now. You can kind of see it right here. I want to talk a little bit about-- we talked about the history of Pinball FX on Xbox, and it's on PlayStation, some other consoles, but what is this latest generation of hardware? What has that allowed you to unlock from a technical perspective that you didn't really have access to before?
AKOS GYORKEI: Yeah, we used our own engine for a long time. So now we switched engines, and just the new consoles allow us to get the lighting really good. So while in FX3 and in FX2 and later pinball games, we were on the lighter side. This arcade feel didn't really come through. But now like on a Series X, you can get ray tracing, you can assist the FPS. You can do HDR, 4K. And the lights are just popping.
LARRY HERB: It's interesting you talk about ray tracing because that's something we've been talking about for quite some time. This is a great example of it, where you can see the light, obviously, reflecting off the ball and the rest of it. So it's really, and again, go download it. It's a free download, so there's no reason you shouldn't check it out. It's a fantastic thing.
Anyway, Pinball FX, available now on Xbox Series X and S. It's also available-- talk about the other consoles and places that people can play this, if you would, Akos?
AKOS GYORKEI: All right, sure. So yeah, we are also on PlayStation and the Epic Games Store.
LARRY HERB: So there you go. Lots of places to check your pinball out. Akos Gyorkei, you're the marketing director for Zen Studios. Appreciate you taking the time today to tell us a little bit about Pinball FX, available as a free download on all those consoles and in the Epic Store that we just talked about. So go check it out. Thank you, my friend.
JEFF: And so a few days ago, Ryan McCaffrey wrote an awesome piece for IGN, positing that Xbox Game Pass is having, perhaps, its best stretch ever. Talking about Austin Games hitting the service, like Hi-Fi RUSH. MLB-- The Show is coming out. Minecraft Legends coming out in April. Redfall. And Wo Long-- Fallen Dynasty, it is out now on Xbox and PC, and with Xbox Game Pass and PC Game Pass.
I've been playing and I'm happy to get some sage advice, because let's be honest, I need it from Emmanuel "Master" Rodriguez, the community manager over at Team Ninja. How you doing?
EMMANUEL RODRIGUEZ: I'm doing great, Jeff. Thank you for having me back on the show. It's an exciting time. The game is finally out, and looking forward to everybody's responses what they think about it.
JEFF: Yeah, so I mean, we're here, it's launch day. We talked to you, actually, really last June right after launch and there were-- right after announce and there were a few things we couldn't talk about. Of course, we can talk about things now, which is great. I remember specifically asking you if we would see Lu Bu, and now we have that answer.
But I'm just curious, how does it feel over at Koei Tecmo and Team Ninja, to have completed this arc from announced to now having Wo Long-- Fallen Dynasty in player's hands?
EMMANUEL RODRIGUEZ: Right, so I think the most important thing is that the team is looking forward to everyone getting their hands on it now today and getting a chance to see how they approach the game. There are so many different ways to approach the game. There are so many abilities, and we can talk on that a little more as we carry the conversation.
But I think the team is just finally excited to finally launch it. And we're eager to see everyone's responses and how they approach the game. And what they like most. There's so many things in this game. We're talking about 40 hours of gameplay, and that's just the main stuff. So there's so much extra stuff that's coming in, as well as DLC down the line.
JEFF: All right, we're showing Shang Lang, who I will say, definitely kicked my butt pretty well. So maybe we'll come back. That's sort of the first boss at the end of the first level. But let's talk about just-- in terms of the pacing, actually, I don't know if you want to keep that footage up there, but compared to Soulslike, you're moving at a run most of the time.
There's jumping, there's double jumping, actually kind of a vertical experience. Just really a lot faster than I might be used to in this genre. So I would love to hear from you on what do you want to keep in mind as you're beginning to play the game?
EMMANUEL RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, I think the most important thing-- and I'm glad you touched on all those things because the team wants to make it feel that there's this balance of offense and defense. And we have this spirit system, that's what we have down there at the bottom, that either teeters left or right depending on which moves or special abilities that you use. And the idea is that you're balancing that with the combat.
And the team wants to make sure that everybody understands that, unlike a lot of other games that are out there, there's not necessarily a stamina meter that you're looking over.
JEFF: Exactly. Yeah.
EMMANUEL RODRIGUEZ: So you can run around, you can double jump, you can run up walls. Anybody that's played a little bit of Ninja Gaiden, one of our other projects that's also on Game Pass, actually, the Ninja Gaiden Master Collection, will feel familiar with that. So there's a little bit of little hints of some of our previous projects. But I think the team wants the players to understand that you're balancing this offense and defense during combat by deflecting, by attacking, building up your spirit, managing your spirit, and also using the right build that fits your play style.
That's the unique part of it. You're trying to do something that you feel comfortable with.
JEFF: Let's get back to that. But just to draw a line under this part, there's no stamina bar, and the spirit gauge is not just another way of naming the stamina bar. How do you make it-- What makes it go down? What makes it go up?
EMMANUEL RODRIGUEZ: Right, so the spirit meter at the bottom right below your life goes up and down depending on the types of move you do. So your regular attacks, like if you're using X as your primary type, that's your basic attack. Then you have Y as your spirit attack, and that will drain a little bit of that spirit. But X, as long as you land the attacks, you build your meter up.
And the higher it goes, the flow of the meter goes and you'll see that it'll be blue. And those are the key moments, where you use like your spirit attacks and martial arts and wizardry, all these different moves that you have. Those are the key moments that you want to use it, because that drains the enemy spirit. Of course, if your spirit goes all the way to the bottom and you get knocked down, you will be out of breath. But that happens to your enemies as well. So the idea is that you're trying to bring theirs down as well.
JEFF: And one of the ways that I found that was risk-reward, but really benefited that spirit meter, and actually had a lot of other great benefits, is using this deflect system. You can block, and it's on the shoulder button, but if you hit B, you deflect, which seems a lot of good benefits to that. Can you talk about that sort of mixed--
EMMANUEL RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, absolutely.
JEFF: --when should I block, when should I deflect?
EMMANUEL RODRIGUEZ: Absolutely. So one of the things that we wanted to make sure-- the team wants to make sure-- is that you can actually block quite a few attacks in the game. So it's not like you're restricted to just deflecting. I know some people feel like, I have to deflect. That's not always the case.
Feel free to block. Your spirit meter generally will not go down that quickly unless it's a big heavy attack from an ogre or something. But if it's general enemies, you can block, feel comfortable, feel confident in that. Of course, you can dodge by double tapping the Dodge command. And for deflecting, you just want to deflect prior to the attack landing.
You can treat it as a parry, basically avoiding any attack. And you can deflect lightning. You can deflect arrows. You can deflect major attacks, especially the big, red glowing attacks. Because those you cannot block. So those are the key moments that you want to use deflect, when the big, red glowing attack comes your way, it's best to do that.
And if your timing is not all that great, that's OK. You can still dodge out the way. You won't get hit. And it's something that you can work up to. So the idea is just to, basically, let players know that it's OK to block a lot, but as you start to learn the deflect system, that's where the game truly opens up. It makes you feel like you're some kind of super ninja.
JEFF: There is that real feeling. When you deflect, it's like yes. And I remember the first time, Zhang, that first boss, because he can really cover a lot of ground on some of his attacks. And I don't want to say I froze, but I was like-- I didn't think to dodge and I hit the deflect, and I parried it perfectly. And he recoiled a little bit and I got that spirit boost. I was like, did I just do that?
It just was a really empowering feel. So what I did is I ended up going back-- and some of the other enemies, the weaker folks that we face, who by the way, can still kick your butt very quickly if you're not careful.
EMMANUEL RODRIGUEZ: You got to be careful.
JEFF: So weaker is definitely, maybe a relative term. But getting a feel for that and when to deflect and versus when to dodge or try to block. It's such a huge chunk of the game, I think, at least from what I've experienced so far right. And experiencing it.
EMMANUEL RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, and touching on that, what you said about the simpler enemies, as you get into them. I think that's a great practice. If you're struggling with the boss, that's kind of the whole idea of whenever you save all these enemies, re-spawn, you can kind of practice with them. Level yourself up maybe a little higher so you can take on that boss that's been giving you some problems, you know what I mean?
JEFF: Can we talk a little bit about-- It's funny you mentioned Ninja Gaiden, and I remember playing Ninja Gaiden on Xbox 20 years ago, I want to say, the original one.
EMMANUEL RODRIGUEZ: Yeah
JEFF: And I remember that first boss. Definitely a bit of a test, you know?
EMMANUEL RODRIGUEZ: Oh yeah.
JEFF: And it took me a lot of time. And then once I beat him, then I got a lot of forward momentum. And you could say that Zhang is a test at the end of the first level. So how would you advise-- as you're going through you have a number of times where you can level up your character and you can choose between five different elements that you would put those points into-- what's a good way to get yourself in a good shape to be able to face and overcome that first boss?
EMMANUEL RODRIGUEZ: OK, I think the best-- great question. I think the best way to approach it is, what makes you-- what is your play style, first of all? Are you the aggressive type? Are you the defensive type? And I think start leaning towards that way.
So if you're an aggressive type, maybe pursuing some of the early wizardry spells of fire. And then it levels up. As you level up the fire element, it'll also bring up your stats related to that element. And then if you want to be a little more defensive, maybe water. Water might be your element that you want to use, using some of the ice attacks and whatnot.
But I think the most important thing is managing your spirit system so that way you're not dodging too much because you're too nervous, and making sure their spirits system doesn't get too low. So you want to make sure you deflect when you can and land your basic attacks so that your spirit is built up to the point where you can land a strong spirit attack. And when you land those spirit attacks and those martial arts, that's when you start really taking down the boss.
And I know some people-- I've seen people-- because the demo is out right now, as well, for those that may not be on Game Pass, but they can still try the demo before jumping on to that service, which I think would be great. And you want to build up that spirit system so that way you bring down the enemy a lot faster. And I know people are struggling with the boss a little bit.
And there's a moment in the game, actually, that you can actually summon a divine beast. And I think the divine beast really helps turn the tides. When you're in that second phase, people are like, oh, what I do here? What? I do that? You summon that and you knock out the enemy, and that's how you take care of that boss. So I think that's the best way to get across that boss if you're struggling with it.
JEFF: Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing some streamers and YouTubers. I think we'll see quite a bit on that. And it is really cool because there are so many different ways you can customize your character. And actually, that's the first thing they do, or one of the very first things they do. And it's a cool custom creator. So do you want to talk a little bit about the things that people can mess with and have fun with and experiment with?
EMMANUEL RODRIGUEZ: Absolutely. So the character creation system is very, very in depth. You have a lot of options. Of course, the team tries to get you jumpstarted by giving you kind of a few presets if you want to do that. Or you can completely start from scratch. What kind of hairstyle do you like? Do you want it to be blue? Green? All blond, black, doesn't matter. You have all those options.
And there are so many different ways. You can make them super short, super tall, whatever you like. Female body type, male body type, whatever it is, your preference, you can customize it. It's one of the most in-depth character customizations that I've seen in a long time. So I'm very proud for the team for putting that together for everybody. And the really cool thing about it is, as you make some of these characters, you'll actually be able to customize and maybe make characters that you're like, you know what? I want to see if it can turn into this person or that person.
And you can even share those characters. So if you have a friend on your friends list, you can send them that code and they'll be like, hey, I like that character. Can you send that to me? You can send it to them. You can make several presets because later on in the game you'll be able to change the way your character is looked at.
You can have one for the male body type, female body type, and then long hair, short hair, different color, doesn't matter. You'll have a bunch of presets that you can have and you can share with your friends. So it's--
JEFF: I saw that functionality, yeah. I'd imagine we're going to see some really cool stuff. Yeah.
EMMANUEL RODRIGUEZ: Oh yeah, I could only imagine what people are going to create. Because you have that much freedom, I'm always impressed by what I'm already seeing now. So the fact that this is the first day out, I can only imagine what happens down the line.
JEFF: All right, so we know people-- Instead of listening to us, they could be downloaded, they could be playing the game right now, or the demo. What is the last thing you want to make sure that people really don't miss as they load up the game for the first time, which is like that most important thing that the team is really proud of and you just want to make sure keep your eye out for this because you're going to love it?
EMMANUEL RODRIGUEZ: Right. I think the most important thing is just-- or the detail that I think the team doesn't want them to miss is just the overall fun of the game. I think a lot of people sometimes see this type of game and maybe a little bit scared at first. But I'm telling you from playing it many, many hours, it's really easy to jump into. It has its challenges, for sure.
There are certain things that you want to start mastering like the dialect and learning what martial arts and wizardry spells that you have. And managing that spirit system. But once you get into it, it feels really fluid. It feels like it's addicting, really. That's what it feels like, it's probably the best description I can give.
It feels addicting and you want to get better at it. Even when you fail, you're just like, you always feel like, that was my mistake. I could have done better from that. And that system is very engaging. It's a lot of fun to get into.
And as you progress, you start to feel more of that challenge and understanding, OK, I've learned all these skills now. So now I just need to manage them differently and get more into the battle the way it was designed to be. Just managing that offense and defense.
JEFF: Yeah, and you said, like sometimes I'll play a game like this where I know even a regular mob can cut me down to size pretty quickly, and you tend to maybe turtle up a little bit more. But I found when I just let go of my fear and just went on the offense, that's when I did the best. And so, yeah.
EMMANUEL RODRIGUEZ: That right there is a good point. Because as you get really good-- and like you said, you let go of your fears and you just go all out and give it a shot, as you get really good at the game, you can just basically stop everything that's coming your way. You see people from-- they're not even on the screen, you kind of get that sixth sense that's built up, as some people may say, when you're playing the game.
So it's really cool as you start to get really advanced in the game, how you can stop a lot of your enemies. And it just makes you feel really good. It's a really hard feeling to describe, but it feels good. It feels addicting. You just want to do more of it. So yeah.
JEFF: All right.
EMMANUEL RODRIGUEZ: It's good.
JEFF: With that, we should stop talking, we should let people download the game. I mean, we still have more of the show, but start that download now. And then when the show is over, we're almost done, you'll be able to get out there and play it. So Wo Long-- Fallen Dynasty, available now on Xbox, on a PC, on Xbox Game Pass, and of course, PC Game Pass as well.
And there's a demo if you happen to be listening here and you're not a member of one of those services yet, try it out. Let us know what you think. And actually, keep an eye out for-- How can people reach you, Emmanuel?
EMMANUEL RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, you can reach me out on Twitter. They can always reach out to the team as well for @TeamNinjaStudio or @WoLongOfficial. You can reach us-- reach me @oMastero on Twitter. The team is constantly looking at people's posts and all those things, and we're just excited to be able to offer this game on Game Pass, day one, as well as the demo for those that are just curious. And looking forward to all of the content that's coming down the line because there's still quite a bit left even after release.
JEFF: All right, well, we will look forward to that. But for now, we've got some challenges. Zhang is waiting for me to come back and unleash a divine beast on him, so I'm going to go take care of that. Thanks so much for joining us and congrats to you and all of Team Ninja and Koei Tecmo on launch.
EMMANUEL RODRIGUEZ: Thank you for having us.
LARRY HERB: All right, Halo Infinite's largest multiplayer update to date is happening in just a few days. It's season three. Echoes Within. Joining me from 343 industries is a good friend of mine, Brian Jarrard, who has been around the Halo universe as much as I've been around Xbox, which is kind of forever. Thus, the gray hair. Hey Brian.
BRIAN JARRARD: Yeah, we're old, man. It's good to see you, Larry. Thanks for having me on.
LARRY HERB: It's good to see you. I'm so glad to get you on. I was going through some notes and I think the last time I had you on was like six years ago. And I said, this is wrong. This is completely wrong.
That's why a couple of weeks ago I reached out to you and I'm like, hey, let's get you on and find the right time. And here we are.
BRIAN JARRARD: Hey, I'm glad. I can't believe it's been six years. But hopefully we don't have that kind of gap again. So you know where to find me. And we're going to start shipping a lot of stuff. It's going to be exciting year for Halo. Lots to talk about. So anytime.
LARRY HERB: Season three is days away. I mean, depending upon when you're listening to this podcast, it's either a few days away or it's already out. But let's talk about it. Because this is, as I said a moment ago, the largest multiplayer update yet. Walk us through what we can expect when it goes live next week.
BRIAN JARRARD: Well, you're not wrong. I mean, if you just look at just the bullet points, there's a lot going on here. The team's been working very hard. It's spent quite a bit of time since the last official season launch back in season two. We've had a lot of ups and downs, trials and tribulations, but really excited with the way things have been going. We had a great update last holiday.
So March 7th, there's a lot coming. And maybe we'll start off with the most requested feature content that we've had since launch. People just want more maps. They want more to play on, right?
LARRY HERB: Now I have to ask you a question, Brian, before we get into this, I made a allusion to it a moment ago, you've been involved with Halo-- you started working on what was Bungee, working on Halo in 2003, right?
BRIAN JARRARD: Yep.
LARRY HERB: So you and I joined-- I was on Xbox in 2003. So you shipped a lot-- I remember the excitement with the DLC maps that you shipped through all the different Halos while you were there. And so you've talked about a lot of maps in your years involved with Halo, haven't you?
BRIAN JARRARD: I have. And don't quiz me because it's, frankly, way more than I could possibly remember and get right right now. It kind of goes part and parcel with getting older, as you noted earlier. But yeah, I mean, it's also crazy we've come a long way. We were obviously offering a full free to play game on Xbox and PC nowadays, versus the old days, not only was it obviously not free to play, but the maps came out via premium map packs you had to buy, right?
LARRY HERB: And then you had to go find the hopper to play with the right people. It was kind of bifurcated, remember that? It was kind of hard.
BRIAN JARRARD: I just love that it's just ubiquitous now, everybody gets everything. And there's a lot to be experienced and enjoyed for free. And there's also some really cool things for on a premium track for folks who are interested.
LARRY HERB: I'm looking over here on my screen and I believe I have-- I don't know where it is. Oh, here it is. We've got a fly through, which is kind of-- Could we play this and kind of go through what we can-- and show some of the maps? You can talk through them, do you mind?
BRIAN JARRARD: For sure. No, I'll do my best. Not the expert, but let's do it, Larry.
LARRY HERB: All right, stand by. I'm going to bring those in here in just a minute. And we're going to go through-- We're going to look at them and we're going to take a look at these maps. Because the maps, when you think about Halo, Halo has always had some amazing maps. But let's go ahead and play this in here. And Brian, why don't you tell us about them? Let's play.
BRIAN JARRARD: Sure. Let's see. Yeah, I see it. That's a black X. All right. Here we go.
LARRY HERB: Cliffhanger.
BRIAN JARRARD: So yep. Cliffhanger, there it is. And as the subhead says there, this one-- all the maps, like you said, usually grounded in some of fictional angle. This one was developed to be-- it's like an ONI Black Ops type of site. I love this kind of map because it's asymmetrical.
I'm a big fan of one flag CTF, where you take turns attacking and defending, just a different style of gameplay. I like that this map has outdoor and indoor environments, like these snowy peaks. I kind of get a little bit of a Reach vibe here, personally. Kind of takes me back to some of those Reach environments that we're used to from back in the day.
LARRY HERB: I just want to freeze it so we can take a look at the beauty of some of these maps. And the one thing I love about this video, which is-- it's available on your YouTube channel, there's no gameplay. There's no music. I mean, there's a little bit of music. But it's just the beauty of the Halo universe, right?
BRIAN JARRARD: Absolutely. Just let it speak for itself, right? Plus, I don't think we can pick up on it on this broadcast right now, but if you watch the video natively, you also can pick up on all the-- there's a lot of ambient sound design work that goes into every facet of these maps that, in the heat of battle, you don't really hear it, but you can really appreciate thousands of bespoke sounds that are planted all around the map that just add to that immersion, that, again, you don't find that in gameplay. It's just too much going on.
LARRY HERB: I have to tell you, and I had to stop the video for a second, because I want to talk about that. Because I mean, I remember going over and interviewing a lot of the audio team at 343 and Bungie, and that's-- you're right. That's the one thing that-- the audio in a game, and you know I've been talking about this for 20 years, that the audio in the game is one of those things when it's done right, you don't even notice. It just feels right.
But when it's done wrong, it's really obvious. And that's what I love about the universe and all the weapons. They've got the right sounds. All of the ambient sounds, they just work. So anyway, big fan of that. You know that.
BRIAN JARRARD: Well, I'll give a big shout out, of course, the audio team. World class. And for folks that may have missed it, for fun, go back, check out the Halo YouTube channel. There's a bunch of fun field recording videos there that shows the audio team going out in the field and all the lengths they go to capture the weird noises that they remix and mash together, and it becomes really cool aliens stuff that you'll hear in the game.
LARRY HERB: I'm with you. That just makes the universe come alive. All right, let's go to the next stop.
BRIAN JARRARD: What do we got? What do we got? OK. So this is another arena map, as it says here, chasm. This one, obviously, very steeped in a forerunner aesthetic. This is heavily inspired by a space that players may remember from the Halo Infinite campaign. In fact, as members of the team are running around playing co-op when we launched online co-op for the campaign, they just kind of started thinking this would be a pretty fun space to have some skirmishes in.
And it kind of went from there and got developed out a little bit. And now we have kind of a really cool, very iconic classic forerunner inspired environment that just feels right at home in Halo. And of course, you got the light bridges here, lots of wide open sight lines. I'm not a great sniper anymore these days--
LARRY HERB: Plus some altitude.
BRIAN JARRARD: Right? And imagine you want to throw your grapple shot up there, get up to vantage points. I can imagine some really high risk, high reward sprints down that middle corridor there.
LARRY HERB: So that's looking for. We got another one coming up here. Tell us what we got here.
BRIAN JARRARD: All right, and this is our third new map. And this one, of course, big team battle, right? This is called oasis. A new aesthetic here a little bit for us, kind of got the desert and canyons. It is asymmetrical as well. Has a lot of great lanes for vehicle combat. It's really heavily designed.
Most of the BTB maps really, really thrive with vehicle chaos and bringing that sandbox to life. Most of vehicles can drive through all the interior spaces too. So loading up a warthog with your friends, you can get some spider sprees, take some ghosts inside the corridors. So pretty much anywhere you can go on this map, you're at risk of being run over by a vehicle.
Also kind of, as somebody in the team pointed out, kind of gives me a little bit of a standoff vibe from Reach.
LARRY HERB: Yeah.
BRIAN JARRARD: Yeah, so again, I'm getting a classic aesthetic vibe here. But I'm really, really blown away by this map. I love the aesthetics. I love sort of nature meets technology, personally. The overgrowth that you're looking at.
LARRY HERB: Yeah.
BRIAN JARRARD: I can't wait to get in there. Larry, you and I were chatting, some of my favorite-- for sure, hands down my favorite Infinite memories to date have been jumping into BTB with you and your giant crew of people. And we just played for hours. And nothing beats it.
LARRY HERB: We had so much fun on this. And it's funny, that one particular map that we just played, the big team, the oasis one, it reminded me-- and I don't remember what Halo it was, but it was more spawned on the beach and you went up to the-- there was a concrete-- I don't remember exactly. I'll have to go-- I'm sure, internet, you'll--
BRIAN JARRARD: You mean Zanzibar with the giant wheel?
LARRY HERB: No, I remember Zanzibar. That's classic. You can't remember that one. Or you can't Forget that one. No, it was like--
BRIAN JARRARD: High ground?
LARRY HERB: I think, yeah. High ground. That's right.
BRIAN JARRARD: It was a little smaller, but yeah, it was asymmetrical. You start on the beach, you kind of storm the base. It was really awesome for one flag and stuff.
LARRY HERB: Yeah, there was a little there was a little area down below here and you had to go-- You could close the door, open the door. Ugh, love that one. That's what--
BRIAN JARRARD: Yeah, so do I. So do I. I'm a sucker for asymmetrical maps, personally. I really like the one sided nature.
LARRY HERB: So we talked about the maps. In fact, I have this great graphic that I'm going to bring up here that I think you guys distributed in your channels. And this is we're going to talk about. We've got--
BRIAN JARRARD: Yeah, there's a lot.
LARRY HERB: Yeah, we talked about the maps in the upper right hand corner. Chasm, cliffhanger, and oasis. But let's start in the upper-- I'm sorry, the upper right. Let's go to the upper left and talk about new weapon, new equipment, and some other stuff there. Tell us what we can expect with the bandits.
BRIAN JARRARD: Yeah, so this is exciting. It's the first official new weapon added to the sandbox since launch. It's been a long time coming. The bandit, I'd say, really, it's reminiscent of the DMR from Halo-- Reach, but it's not one to one. But I would say it draws inspiration from that.
For folks that are really into this kind of stuff, it's a five shot kill. It doesn't have a scope, though, which means you can't be descoped. But this weapon really excels at medium to long range. And it rewards accuracy and pacing your shot. The more you get kind of wild and squirrely with it, obviously you're going to miss. But I think in the hands of some accurate shooters, this thing is going to be devastating.
And for me, it kind of also reminds me a little bit of like the Halo 5 magnum. I think this could eventually become a great starting weapon for certain game modes as well.
LARRY HERB: I also want to point out that weapons are there-- I mean, everything about doing multiplayer in a video game is difficult, making sure it's properly balanced. Weapons is one of those things where it's got to be the right weapon, it's got to feel right in the universe. It can't be overpowered. It can't be-- It needs to have something that can also kind of answer what it's doing. So there's a lot going on with weapon design, right?
BRIAN JARRARD: Yeah, for sure. I mean, big shout out to our sandbox team. And I should also point out, the most-- to me, the most difficult challenge isn't just getting it right the first time. These things are always kind of evolving, right? And you'll hear people talk about the meta and how things are going to change.
In fact, folks can head over to HaloWaypoint.com, we have some articles up with the sandbox team. But we've been doing weapon tunings and weapon adjustments based on player feedback.
LARRY HERB: Right
BRIAN JARRARD: A couple of those things were adjusted recently. I think there's a few more coming in for season three. But it's like they don't just ship in or rest on their laurels, there's always room to keep tuning and looking at the data and making sure nothing's really overperforming or underperforming. And we also have to look at things a full competitive esports league, and making sure that we're making the right tools for that as well.
LARRY HERB: One of my favorite things I remember when you guys were working on Halo, when you were working on Halo 2, I'd come over and see you in your office-- after you would let me in-- and they always-- and I'm sure you have it now, but there was always a lot of people-- there was a heat map, which was the overhead view of a particular-- of a multiplayer map. And it showed you where most of the activity was, whether it was the kills or what have you. And I always love that, because that's just a great way to visualize exactly where the choke points are, right?
BRIAN JARRARD: Yeah, for sure. I mean, I know for level designers, that user research and those analytics are critical. And it's just a way to augment the anecdotal feedback they might get in playtest or through flighting and whatnot. But the data doesn't lie. It just shows you, there might be a problem here, everyone's dying in this spot. And by the way, this whole back part of the map that we spent a lot of time on? No one ever goes back there.
So maybe let's put a spank or rocket launcher back there and see if we can lure people. But you're absolutely right. It's equal parts arts and science, as far as I'm concerned.
LARRY HERB: All right, let's bring this graphic back up here now. We talked about the bandit rifle, now notice-- OK. I'm going to-- guys, there's a little clue here. Shroud screen. It's a screen. It's not a shield. So tell us about the shroud screen.
BRIAN JARRARD: You're right. There was a little confusion because we had some of this content playable at the most recent Halo Championship Series esports event in Charlotte, and some things started traveling around, people started calling it the shroud shield. And I get that it has a bubble look to it, but it is absolutely not the bubble shield. And biggest difference is, shield stops things from getting in or out. The screen is really-- think about it a futuristic-- it's like, what is Halo's answer to a smoke grenade?
Something that's really designed for obfuscation, kind of trickery stealth. It is, right? So you can't see into it. You can certainly shoot into it, throw grenades into it. But also, on the flip side, when you're inside of it, you can't see out of it either, but you can shoot out of it.
So I think it's pretty fun for sneaking around, hiding in there with a sword. Someone's chasing you and they only see that you have an AR, but next thing you know, they come around the corner into your shroud screen and maybe you've got something to surprise them with. So really interested to see how that might evolve the meta, how people might do, of course, things that we've never anticipated. And it just opens up new gameplay mechanics that don't exist in Halo today.
Yep, here you go. Perfect example.
LARRY HERB: What? Yeah, so it's really just kind of let you set-- maybe set up in the background and hide something and then spring it on your opponents. Or maybe they won't even know what they're walking into. That's another--
BRIAN JARRARD: Yeah, I mean, that is the thing. Yeah, but it's a brand new type of game play and a new niche that Halo hasn't really had before. So I know the team is excited to see how players take advantage of it. And I'm excited, not only to get these in the hands of players, but I can't talk about it, I'll probably get in trouble, but the sandbox team is not resting on their laurels.
They have more in the works for future sandbox, brand new weapons and brand new equipment. So we're just getting started on that front.
LARRY HERB: Stay tuned. All right, we're going to bring the graphic back. We talked about the shroud screen. We've got two free narrative events. Tell me about those and then we'll go right--
BRIAN JARRARD: Yeah. Let me just speak to the-- I'll cover both of those events together. Because Halo Infinite, for folks that maybe aren't aware, we have events that are periodic. They pop up in the game. They're free. Basically, you complete a Series of challenges and you unlock free cosmetic rewards.
Now for season three, we have our marquee narrative event, which will pick up on the events that occurred in season two. I'm not going to spoil any of the details, but I think, suffice it to say, a group of Spartans that are lone wolves went out on patrol, came back with an unexpected visitor via a banished AI that is known as Aratus, and season three is going to pick up and kind of tell that story via some cinematics and this event that will be themed as that.
But the most important part to know is that first event kicks off on launch at March 7th. And you'll be able to play through and unlock a completely exclusive reward track for cosmetics from just completing those events. Now the Fracture, on the other hand, also in event. When that comes throughout the season, it'll offer a free event pass as well that'll let you unlock content.
The thing about the Fracture that's cool is it's intentionally not really grounded in Halo canon. It's not really-- it doesn't have to play by the same rules, so the team gets to have a little more fun, right? And be creative. You might remember the samurai we launched with, the Yoroi Spartan. Super cool. But we didn't have to worry about writing that into the canon.
So season three is Fracture, it will be what you saw on that graphic. It's called the Firewall--
LARRY HERB: Wait a minute, are you telling me the bunny ears aren't canon?
BRIAN JARRARD: I mean, they might be. They're not technically part of a Fracture. So I mean, I would say they're popular and contagious enough, or if they're not, they should be written into canon. I mean, I wear them sometimes, so what are you going to do? Something about beating your opponent when you got-- actually, too, Larry, if you weren't aware, we have something that we called ear interception, where you actually can wear the cat ears and the bunny ears.
LARRY HERB: Oh, I do it. Oh, I do it.
BRIAN JARRARD: Yeah, right? So it's kind of embarrassing, I think, to take somebody down with the full ears going. But both of those cores, actually, by the way, that we saw in that graphic, so the Firewall Core there on the left will be available-- by the way, these are both available free for all players. So you're going to get the cores right away.
And then as you play in the Fracture event, you'll unlock cosmetics that allow you to customize your Firewall Core. And then on the right, we have the Chimera Core, which is, essentially, the SPI armor that Halo fans might be aware of from prior games. It's been a fan favorite requested since launch. A lot of cool cosmetic offerings will be available once that is released on March 7th as well.
LARRY HERB: I'm just looking at some of the other graphics that you guys sent over. Love this. That's a great look--
BRIAN JARRARD: Yeah, it's like your own kind of-- customizing your own Spartan and going on your own Spartan journey has kind of always been at the heart of the team's vision for Halo Infinite multiplayer. And I think we're really starting to finally see that come to light. And you and I were chatting the other day, when we're in games now, you can start to see in those opening camera lineups, everyone looks super different because there's just so much more content that's available.
And I think what season three is going to show is not just more, but the quality and the depth and the variety of content is going to keep increasing. So the coatings are more detailed. You're going to see more effects. You're going to see more geometry versus just paint swaps. So it's been exciting for me to see the team really start executing on that vision.
LARRY HERB: Yeah, so we got that. We talked about the Fracture event. We've got the maps, your battle pass customization, the season three premium battle pass is-- You got that?
BRIAN JARRARD: Yeah, battle pass is a part of our-- The thing I think I want to stress there is we have a lot to offer for players who want to just play for free and have fun, because it is a free to play game. There will be plenty of cosmetics between the event pass and the free track of the battle pass to earn and unlock as you go. But for folks who are interested, the premium pass offers even more, not only will you earn back 1,000 credits, which essentially means the pass could pay for itself, but if you go back to that graphic real quick, they're actually offering the official right there-- "go premium, show it off." The red steel coatings.
You'll get a suite of coatings that work on all the armor cause that's exclusive to the premium pass.
LARRY HERB: Oh fun.
BRIAN JARRARD: I think the team is constantly trying to just listen to feedback. How do we add more value? How do we add more unique ways for players to customize their unique Spartans? And I think those new coatings look pretty awesome. I just realized too, Larry, I forgot to bring up one thing about the events that I'm excited about too, the Halo gear reward program will be back for season three. Now folks maybe weren't aware of this for season two, but if you finished the event, the seasonal event in season two, you were given the opportunity to purchase an exclusive bomber jacket that you could only get by finishing the event.
I know the consumer products team and the Halo gear team are back and they're doing some cool stuff for season three. My understanding is there will be an assortment of pins, like physical pins, that you will be able to--
LARRY HERB: You know I love my pins.
BRIAN JARRARD: I do too, and you've given me a few over the years. And I still have them all. But you'll be able to buy these pins online. But you can only get access to them if you've completed the event. So I'm excited to see how this rolls out. And I think they're also excited to get more feedback.
And it'll be a little bit, obviously, more accessible than an expensive jacket. But I love the idea of real world tangible rewards for something that is only obtainable for things I do in games.
LARRY HERB: In-game, yeah.
BRIAN JARRARD: I think we're just scratching the surface there.
LARRY HERB: We got Escalation Slayer, is a brand new game mode, which-- explain us how it's going to work.
BRIAN JARRARD: Yeah, so I mean, the easiest way to describe, this folks are probably familiar with Gun Game that's been around for a while. And a lot of other games, especially like Call of Duty, I think kind of put that on the map. We also have Escalation Slayer and MCC. But essentially, it's a more controlled form of Fiesta.
So you start out with a primary, secondary weapon and equipment. Every time you get a kill, it goes to the next thing on the list. What I think is very interesting here is that it's kind of inverse. You start off with the Rocket, so the most powerful, but at the end you're left with the Oddball, which means you have to get a melee kill.
And basically, whatever individual or team gets that final kill with that Oddball in the final phase, they're the winner. Also interesting slant for Halo is, you're getting a secondary weapon and a piece of equipment is changing each tier as well.
LARRY HERB: Oh interesting.
BRIAN JARRARD: I think it's going to be super fun. And I was joking with you. I love Fiesta, but I generally have the worst luck and I just get plasma pistols all the time. So this feels like the best of both worlds to me. It's going to force me to play the entire breadth of the sandbox, but it's a little bit more predictable. And it's actually not too unlike Last Spartan Standing, which was our mode from season two, which also had a progression through a fixed loadout. This is just like that kind of on steroids.
LARRY HERB: Now one thing, since I've been-- I'm a Halo fan, you've been in the Halo-- you're working on Halo for quite some time, one thing I love about this community is something you're really unlocking this time around. And that is, of course, the community playlist. Let's talk about that. This is amazing.
BRIAN JARRARD: Yeah, so obviously, I mean, ever since Halo 3, what is Halo without Forge? Forge is the editor that we put in the hands of our players that lets them create all these amazing brand new experiences. We launched the community collection playlist recently. It currently contains several maps that were 100% made by members of the community.
You can just see it looks at this video, I mean, it used to be back in the day you could tell like, oh, that's a Forge map. It's kind of gray. And you can not really tell the difference anymore. And the amount of just the technological advancements of the team made with Forge and just the overall investment there in general, it is a huge part of Halo Infinite today and will only become a bigger part going forward.
So I'm excited. This is our first step to start bringing these community made maps and modes into matchmaking, which of course, just makes it easier. Less friction. It's easier to find a play. And it lets you play in those content experiences as a means of progressing your events or progressing your battle paths. I should also note the custom game browser, which we had announced a long time ago, was supposed to be part of season three, but we actually surprised launch that in December.
LARRY HERB: Yeah, you did.
BRIAN JARRARD: Or, sorry, I guess was that-- that was November? I don't remember. We had two giant updates last year. We pulled a lot of things in. I think it was December, you're right. So that's already live today. We should see some good updates for that coming in season three.
I don't have the list in front of me, but in general, a whole bunch of bug fixes, quality of life improvements, polish areas. So it's like, the teams always not only looking at new content and ways to keep feeding that appetite, but always looking for opportunities to keep to improve. And we have a lot of great feedback coming in. So custom game browsers live. Limitless number of maps and modes to go play.
We recently celebrated a milestone. There's been over a million pieces of Forged content created since the Forge beta launched--
LARRY HERB: Shout out to Waffle House.
BRIAN JARRARD: That Waffle House map was amazing, right? Also Larry, for folks that are really into Forge, they're going to be excited to know one of the bigger things coming for season three for Forge, beyond just some polish and some more usable will the refinements is the ability to edit dev maps. So you'll be able to take the 343 main maps, load them up in Forge, reconfigure stuff, move weapons around.
LARRY HERB: Yeah.
BRIAN JARRARD: And that was something that we didn't have initially. But we know that's been highly requested, and I think that will unlock even more opportunities when it launches.
LARRY HERB: A ton of stuff. And again, I'll throw this graphic up again. And people are-- you can check out Brian and the Halo team on Twitter, or have you at HaloWaypoint. Check it all out. But I also want to do a quick shout out. I know that you guys have had some changes over there and refocuses and you've been working on some stuff for Halo.
And I just want to say, on behalf of somebody who's an active member of the Halo community, I'm really excited to see where you guys are going. I know Pierre, I talked to Pierre. Maybe get him on the show in the future, who's the head of the studio right now. And he said he'll come on, but right now he's got some stuff he's got to work on first. So I'm looking forward to seeing what he's doing.
BRIAN JARRARD: Yeah, there's been a-- I'll just say it's been a year. There's been a lot of ups and downs. I also would just want to give a huge thanks to the Xbox community and the Halo community for sticking by us and supporting us. And we're really happy with what-- proud of what the team launched, but clearly we had some work to do to kind of realize the vision ongoing. And I'm really excited about the strides we've made starting last fall.
I think things are starting to fall into place. I'm very, very optimistic and looking forward to-- 2023 is going to be a great year for Halo Infinite. And we're not done. So we're not stopping. The team is more committed than ever. And there's a lot more to come. So I think Halo fans should be looking forward to that as well.
LARRY HERB: All right, Brian, listen Echoes Within, it's depending upon when you listen to the show, it's coming March 7th, so it may be available right now. This is season three. A ton of stuff there. Brian, great to have you on again. Will you come back on again maybe real soon and talk about--
BRIAN JARRARD: I'd love to. Absolutely. I mean, I'm going to throw down the gauntlet here. Another thing that you and I used to do back in the day that I also have fond memories of is we had a fun little rivalry match between Major Nelson and Team Xbox, at the time, Sketch and Team Bungee. But I think we could bring back something like that again, have a little-- I miss the trash talking.
LARRY HERB: Let's reactivate. Those were some fun times and those are kind of the golden era. But we can go back and have some fun like that.
BRIAN JARRARD: You put the bunny ears on, I put the cat ears on. I'll meet you in the middle of the shroud screen. We'll see what happens.
LARRY HERB: All right, Brian. Thanks so much. We'll talk to you later.
BRIAN JARRARD: Thanks Larry.
REBECCA: Thanks to all our guests. And for those of you listening, remember that today Wo Long-- Fallen Dynasty is out now. Jeff, exciting stuff.
LARRY HERB: Yeah. Great interview, Jeff. Tell us a little bit about the game. I mean, we heard about it in the interview, but--
JEFF: Sure, sure. Yeah, we talked about it. You would have just heard. It's a Soulslike, it's very fast paced. So I won't dive back into it because you just heard it, but the thing that I was going to mention is Emmanuel Rodriguez is-- his handle if you will is "Master." And he actually signs off his emails that way.
LARRY HERB: Did you get to call him Master on email?
JEFF: Reply all my threads, I'd be like, yes, Master. Or thanks, Master. and--
JEFF: And I was like, OK. Well, you know.
LARRY HERB: Do you remember Dark Master? Oh.
LARRY HERB: That was in the original commercial for Xbox Live, where we had--
REBECCA: Oh, interesting.
LARRY HERB: --that was like the gamertag that we were using. And it was like--
JEFF: I should have asked him if that was him. The very same.
LARRY HERB: Go look that guy-- in fact, I think I've got the original commercial on my YouTube channel. Go look it up, you'll see Dark Master.
REBECCA: Oh, funny.
LARRY HERB: OK. Anyway, Wo Long is out. Jeff, you've got some news over there. If you can cue us up and get us into the news department.
JEFF: So yeah, a few games available now as part of Xbox Game Pass. So now that we're into March, Merge & Blade came out this week, which is a fantasy puzzler and an auto battler. It looks very cute. F1 22, that will actually be-- Yeah, by the time you listen to this, will have hit the vault. So if you're an EA play member, if you're on Xbox Game Pass Ultimate, if you're a PC Game Pass, you will be able to play F1 22, which is great timing. I want to say there's a season five of-- Drive To Survive might be out now. So good timing, as always.
Soul Hackers 2, this is a game-- I want to say I talked about it last summer when I played through it. But if you've been playing through Persona and you're like, I like this. I would like to play something else like this by the same publisher. And there's definitely certain threads, especially in the battle, that are very similar. But it's a much more-- I would say adult.
The characters are older. They're not in high school. It takes place far into the future. And really, has some-- I still think about some of the things in the storyline that-- So it definitely got through to me in that way. It's not nearly as lengthy as those Persona games are. Those are typically 100 hour sagas.
I looked back and I think--
REBECCA: 100 hours.
JEFF: You know what? Loved every minute. But sometimes, with a lot of other games coming out, it can be-- That was it. That was all I played for a long time. And I was watching other games pile up and I was like, OK, I better speed this up. But Soul Hackers 2, a much more manageable length, that I finished it just-- I want to say exactly 40 hours.
And then, of course, Wo Long-- Fallen Dynasty. And then also, just some updates. There's one I wanted to call out, which came out last week, but we didn't have a show last week, but it looked really cool-- was the New Zealand update for Microsoft Flight Simulator.
REBECCA: Oh, that's cool.
JEFF: I have a friend who moved to New Zealand from Texas, and I sent it to him. And he was like, I see my work from here. Like literally, like in one of the--
REBECCA: Oh, how fun.
JEFF: --trailers that we had done. And I was like, OK, well clearly, the team, once again, has done an amazing job. And it's such a beautiful country. So having been there once several years ago, I kind of want to fly through over Lake Taupo and maybe do the Auckland to Wellington view, because that would be really cool. And I've never been on the South Island, so--
LARRY HERB: Now's your time.
JEFF: That will be the closest that I get.
REBECCA: Jeff likes him.
JEFF: Speaking of Game Pass, if you are interested in PC Game Pass but it wasn't previously available in your country, let's say you're listening to us from Costa Rica or Ecuador or Iceland or Luxembourg, I'm sure there's somebody--
REBECCA: Very specific countries.
JEFF: I'm sure there's someone here from Romania that's listening to us now. Well, guess what? We are--
LARRY HERB: Hit us in the YouTube comments are on Twitter if that's the case. We'd love to know--
JEFF: Well yeah. So PC Game Pass preview is now available for insiders in 40 new countries. So we have the full list over on Xbox Wire. That's news.Xbox.com. So you should check it out. And if it's never been previously available to you, you can sign up to try it out.
LARRY HERB: I mean, look at this.
JEFF: There are hundreds of games available. Yes.
LARRY HERB: Bulgaria, Costa Rica, Iceland, Kuwait. Have I been-- I've been to Kuwait. I've been to Kuwait. Liechtenstein. Liechtenstein. I love that. Look at this. Is everywhere, Jeff. I mean, the list goes on Tunisia, Uruguay, Paraguay.
JEFF: Really, like most of South America.
LARRY HERB: Yeah.
JEFF: Parts of Asia, North Africa. And of course, it was already available in many other places too, so really filling in the gaps. And hey, 40 more countries. That's a lot--
LARRY HERB: Montenegro. I've always wanted to go to Montenegro.
JEFF: Yes, yes. Yeah, it's in the Balkan region.
LARRY HERB: That's right. Casino Royale takes place there.
JEFF: Does it really?
LARRY HERB: Well, the Daniel Craig version.
JEFF: Yes, yes. Not the '60s version. All right. And if you are a Xbox Game Pass Ultimate member or an Xbox Live Gold subscriber, well, there's more games with gold that are heading your way. Truberbook-- Truberbrook, which is now available because we are in March, as well as Southern Strike 4-- Complete Collection. And then later in the month will be Lamentum. And so three games this month to keep an eye out for it.
And of course, once you get them, they're yours. They're just yours. So make sure you download them. And then another awesome announcement, we got to see it for the first time, here is this Forza Horizon 5 rally adventure. It's coming out at the end of this month, March 29th. I highly recommend you watch the trailer. I want to say it was announced last week.
But we didn't have a show and I wanted to call it out again. It looks really cool. I love rally racing. And these sort of Forza twist on rally racing. It's not that you would have a navigator in the passenger seat, but a chopper is following you and helping to direct you through to be able to get ahead of these turns that are coming so fast while you're off road. And it's a different type of-- while road racing is a huge part of a Forza Horizon game, rally racing is different. And I'm looking forward to trying that out. And it looks really cool.
LARRY HERB: I was looking at that because I remember there used to be some rally games on Xbox and--
JEFF: There's quite a few. Yeah.
LARRY HERB: And I think, because-- have you ever-- Rebecca, have you ever played them or are familiar like how the navigator is calling out right turn, and they were-- there's a whole--
JEFF: Sharp right turn coming up or-- Yeah, exactly.
REBECCA: Oh interesting.
LARRY HERB: In fact, and I feel bad because we should-- when Jeff and I were traveling a lot a few years ago, I feel like we could have done some good rally work.
JEFF: I feel like--
LARRY HERB: I was driving, you were navigating.
JEFF: Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. That's right. Yes. There's been a couple of times. Did I get us lost? Not that much. So I think it worked out well.
LARRY HERB: Fun.
JEFF: So we did talk about The Mandalorian, and so you might see some folks out there with some really cool Grogu controllers. There is--
REBECCA: Yeah, they look really good.
JEFF: It looks really cool. Sort of in his--
LARRY HERB: Well, they got a--
JEFF: --floating carriage. And so--
LARRY HERB: And they gave him a little hoodie that's not like this, but it's a little--
JEFF: Not that exactly.
REBECCA: It's like a furry--
JEFF: Yeah, well, it's what he's wearing.
LARRY HERB: Exactly, it's what he's wearing.
JEFF: His smock or--
LARRY HERB: Why don't I have one of those, Jeff?
JEFF: I don't have one either.
REBECCA: Like the controller jacket?
LARRY HERB: Yeah, the controller--
REBECCA: The Sherpa one?
LARRY HERB: Yeah, I've got to talk to the team. But you at home can get one, Jeff, right?
JEFF: Yeah, fans can enter a sweepstakes for this limited edition Mandalorian inspired Xbox Series S and X bundle, featuring a custom Grogu Xbox controller and hoodie, with a simple retweet of the official Xbox Twitter account that is going on now through May 11th. Plenty of time. It opened fans globally. So go ahead, you can look for that tweet on twitter.com/Xbox.
LARRY HERB: All right.
REBECCA: Even the old Mandalorian controllers that we released in 2020, those are really cute too.
JEFF: Those are really cool too.
REBECCA: I'm trying to find a picture of the-- Yeah, big time. I'm trying to find a picture of the Grogu controller, but I can only find it with the jacket on. You can like--
LARRY HERB: Well, that's the only way you see Grogu, with the jacket on.
REBECCA: I guess is true. It makes it a little hard to push the buttons and use the controller.
LARRY HERB: Fair point. Fair point.
REBECCA: It's for the jacket though.
JEFF: Last thing. A lot of people are talking about it this week. Destiny 2-- Lightfall. It's here. It is-- I would say, my feeds have been dominated by it. Looks awesome. There's, of course, a raid and all kinds of stuff that people are talking about. So more information over on Xbox Wire to check it out.
But if you're a Destiny fan, you definitely already know about that. But if you haven't played in a while, some tempting stuff. It really looks really cool. So I know folks are incredibly excited about it.
LARRY HERB: And if you get-- Anything else you got there, Jeff? I don't want to cut you off.
JEFF: No, I think we're in a good spot.
LARRY HERB: You know what you want to do is if you get a chance, head over to the Xbox-- our good friends at the UK, Xbox UK, they had a chance to chat with our good friend Phil Spencer, who's a friend of the show. He is over there--
JEFF: Friend of us all.
LARRY HERB: Yes, he's friend of gamers everywhere. But he over there and he talks to Charlie Hodson just about gaming over in Europe and UK, and he was over there doing some work on the Blizzard project. So it was great to see Charlie and Phil be able to catch up and talk a little bit about that. So you can head over to the Xbox On channel. Yes, Jeff?
JEFF: Something just came over the Wire here. Don't think I'm listening to you when I'm on the show, Larry, I'm listening to all the other stuff coming through. A note from 343 for Michael Shore, the Forge lead designer, I feel like we had him on the show at one point previously. The Forge beta in Halo Infinite has now passed 1 million creations, which is an awesome milestone.
LARRY HERB: This is so new we couldn't even include it in the Halo interview that I had with Brian earlier. That's how new it is.
JEFF: Are you serious?
LARRY HERB: Yeah, we didn't even include it.
JEFF: OK, yeah. I think it just came over-- I'm looking over at a blog post we're going to be putting out-- I guess tomorrow, but--
LARRY HERB: It's going to be out now by the time this airs.
JEFF: Yes, exactly. So check it out on Xbox Wire. And there's some really cool highlights in the community collection. Some really cool looking maps. But over one million Forge creations since the beta launched. And eight and a half million custom game matches played.
LARRY HERB: Fun.
JEFF: Some really cool stuff here. Definitely check that out.
LARRY HERB: All right.
REBECCA: Yeah. Forge is the source of such great creativity. I used to play some really awesome custom games back in the day in Halo-- Let's see, I think Halo-- Reach was probably the one I played the most. But also, Halo 3, Halo 4, and Halo 5. Pretty good stuff.
LARRY HERB: Yeah. I mean, in fact, I think I've got it in here. We talked about that. Go back if you fast-- don't fast forward through the interviews, but if you go through the interviews, you can kind of see Brian and I talk about this. And this little graphic we pulled up quite frequently, just talks about everything they've done for season three and how they're getting in a good rhythm.
And one of those, of course, is putting some of those great community maps into playlists. So go back and--
REBECCA: Very cool.
JEFF: And season three next week, March 7th.
LARRY HERB: March 7th. Lovely.
LARRY HERB: All right, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, wherever you are, hopefully you're having a great time. We're going to wrap it up here, let you get back to whatever you were playing over there on your iPad, Jeff.
BRIAN JARRARD: Right, Jeff?
JEFF: --I'm not playing because I can't stop staring at your glasses, Larry. The glint off the glass.
LARRY HERB: Is it too much?
REBECCA: No, they're great.
JEFF: Nothing could be too much.
LARRY HERB: Should I go a little more soothing like this?
REBECCA: No, I like--
JEFF: How many pairs of glasses do you have there?
LARRY HERB: Oh, endless. I've got-- here. These may be a little bit too much. And I feel like--
JEFF: Wait, there's ones that are even more? Like even--
JEFF: Wow. That's sort of like a--
REBECCA: Oh, those are loud.
JEFF: If you were in the jungle or something, like peering through some palm fronds or something, I might not see you.
LARRY HERB: All right. All right, thanks, gang. Thanks for joining us on the show this week. It's always great to have you, Rebecca, and of course, you, Jeff, as well. We'll have you guys back next week. We're working on some more interviews, some more stuff. We're back in our rhythm.
We need to get back in the studio. We're going to figure that part out as well. We love doing that live show. That was so much fun a few weeks ago and--
LARRY HERB: Thank you for everybody-- Rebecca, thank you for coming on up here to Seattle and joining us in the studio, and Jeff coming over. And of course, you, lovely listener and viewer, for joining us. So all right, gang, have fun. Play fair, file feedback. Hit us up on Twitter if you want to, especially Jeff, if you have anything you want to talk about Eagles. You can hit them there.
JEFF: Season is over, buddy. Let's not talk about that.
REBECCA: Yeah. [LAUGHS]
LARRY HERB: All right, gang. We'll see everybody next week. Bye-bye, everybody.